SOME VERY SERIOUS
Questions
for
Adventists
Ellen White wrote this in
“The Review and Herald” of March 25,
1890:
“We do not claim that in the doctrines
sought out by those who have studied the
word of truth, there may not be some
error, for no man that lives is
infallible … Our brethren should be
willing to investigate in a candid way
every point of controversy”.
Your Pastors, Teachers and Leaders,
response so far
click here
In compliance with the Seventh
Day Adventist attorney;
click here
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INTRODUCTION
My name is Ronald Robert
Parmele. I’m 70 years old. I am not a Preacher, Teacher or Prophet. I’m
just an, imperfect, old warn out guy who loves the Adventist people. I
was raised a fourth Generation Seventh Day Adventist, on both sides of
my family. I only went to Adventist schools. I managed Academy
Industries for nearly ten years. I was baptized into the
truth,
was schooled in the
truth, married in the
truth, schooled my four children in the
truth. I planned to die in the
truth, so help me God. I was kicked out of
the truth at the Hillsboro, Oregon, Seventh
Day Adventist church
in 1982, because they no longer
believed I was in the
truth.
I loved Ellen
White. I had been at her home in Battle Creek.
I was in the upstairs bedroom where I was told, by the guide that her
angel had stood, right there by that table, and guided her hand as she
wrote
The Great Controversy
because she only had a 3rd grade education.

I have been at Ellen White's home near Pacific Union College (where my
daughter was going to college to become a bible-worker). I saw where
they rolled Ellen White out on the balcony in her wheel chair so she
could get the sunshine before she died.

I went to the graveyard in Battle Creek to see where the White family
had been buried.
To me it was holy ground. I
gloried in it all.

We were the Remnant Church, God's Chosen People. All other churches were
Babylon. I was so proud. We had the Seal of God (Sabbath) and the
Testimonies of Jesus (Ellen White). We had the "Truth".
I had seen the homestead
of my great grandfather near Battle Creek. I saw Cedar Lake Academy
where my mothers father had gone to school. I even saw the two story
outhouse.

WILLIS HOMESTEAD 1800'S

FIRST CEDAR LAKE ACADEMY BUILDING
AND THE TWO STORY OUTHOUSE. IT WAS FOR TWO STORY APARTMENTS
The old Battle Creek Sanitarium

A Sword of Fire Hung over Battle
Creek;
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw71.htm
SDA ACTIONS AGAINST KELLOGG;
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6434097767490329654&q=&h
It takes about 5 minutes into the
video to get to the Kellogg story. It's worth the wait! After listening
to all the EGW statements please name the specific errors, that she
claims Kellogg made in writing the book, and which changes he had to
correct. The story Kellogg uses about the boot to illustrate the tree as
prove that God made the tree with seeds to grow other trees seems a good
one to me.

Interview between
Elder G. W. Amadon, Elder A. C. Bourdeau, and Dr. John Harvey Kellogg;
http://www.ex-sda.com/john.htm

Now a government building of some kind.
I had taken a tour of the Kellogg Cereal factory, I went to the Dime
Tabernacle church and Camp-meeting at Lansing Michgan where I met the
remaining members of my Adventist grandfather's Willis family (my
mothers father). I was truly blessed to have had such a great heritage.
I was at peace.
If only I had not started to study!
I know many of you are going to
think I'm bitter, over my past relationship, with the church. I'm not! I
had the best parents in the world. I loved everyone of my teachers, I
loved my Academy years. My classmates are the dearest friends I have. I
love my heritage. I would not have taken the time to write about it on
this site if I was not proud of it. I know that they all believed we
were in the only true church. But, I had to know for sure. I was afraid
at first. I had heard and read all the condemnation that Ellen White and
the church leaders heaped on all those that dared to question them or
Ellen White. I had studied religion all of my life, it left me high and
dry. I wasn't happy, I wasn't sure I'd be saved. If Adventism wasn't
right nothing else was.
You may want to read what an
ex-SDA chaplain serving on active duty with the
United States military had to say about his love for the people within
the church. When I read his story I got tears in my eyes. His heart is
not unlike mine;
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/testimonydd.htm
It took 28 years to gain the nerve to publish this material. I'm an old
man now and time is running out, I don't have another 28 years. You need
to know Christ is coming soon. You need to know that God loves you, that
His promises are sure.
I didn't know how to study any other way than to start with the
writings of Ellen White and the church so I bought nearly all her books,
the small thick Spiritual Gifts books, Early Writings, all nine of her
Testimonies', a full set of the conflict series, a lot of the
compilations of her books and a full set of the Commentaries. I had all
three of her Great Controversy books. It began to bother me that she had
changed them. Why would she need to if her angel was by her side guiding
her hand as she wrote? I found an old copy of D.M.Canrights book
you can get it online free here;
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/canright/egw16.htm
I
now knew which historical documents, to ask the White Estates for. After
I told them I was willing to take them to court to get them, they
started sending me a few. One day I got a call from a Mr. Olson,
(not the Mr. Olson of the
White Estates). This guy was not an Adventist. He told me, as a
young man, Ballenger (a former SDA pastor who had questioned the
Investigative Judgment) and he were good friends. Ballenger's wife
had given him Ballenger's files after he died. He said, the White
Estates had wanted to buy them for years, but he would never sell them
to the White Estates because they would destroy them. He was 81 years
old, at the time he called me. Someone from the White Estates had to
have told him I was looking for old documents and that I may want to buy
them. I asked if someone from White Estates had told him, he said yes
but wouldn't tell me who it was.
He
sold me the
Ballenger
files. They contained
a lot of old letters and the earliest Ellen White booklets etc. I read
them all night long for a week. You can get them all, word for word, on
the internet now for free at;
www.ellenwhiteexposed.com
It would be a mistake for you to make these sites, or the people who
have put them up the problem. It's the documentation that they present
that needs to be questioned and answered by the church. That's the
purpose of this site. You, as members, need to understand what to ask of
your leaders. What makes this site different is the fact that I have
written my reasons for asking the questions. You need your own reasons.
After reading all the
documentation and all the early booklets she wrote, I now knew the
changes they made in her writings and all the failed prophecies she had
made. I also understood why the church was hiding them.
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/secrets2.htm
After
listening to a tape of an Adventist forum meeting,
(about EGW's copying)
given by Walter Rea at San Diego, which a church member had given
me. I went to see Walter Rae, at Walla Walla College one weekend. At the
last minute the college was told not to let him speak, so a public
school was rented and all the students and most of the faculty went over
there. I later was able to buy a set of nine cassette tapes of the
meeting he had with the General Conf. Committee that met with him to see
his evidence that Ellen White copied, they already knew she did, but not
to the extent Walter had found. Why had they not told us?
They voted that Walter Rae be given a leave of absence
from his church to study the "Desire of Ages" and to put his work on the
"Great Controversy" into a more professional form and someone be hired
to help him. They voted to no longer hide it under the carpet but make
it known to the members. That did not happen. Walter was fired.
The man they hired to study the "Desire Of Ages" was Fred Veltman, they
thought they could control him so the outcome would show that Ellen
White didn't copy that book. You need to decide for yourself by reading
the report. Go to;
http://www.truthorfables.com/Desire_of_Ages_Veltman.htm
So what
happen to Walter Rae?
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/rea/letter.htm
Did he put
his study in a more professional form?
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw17.htm
"The Truth About The White Lie" by
Ellen G. White Estate First published August 1982.
Revised January 1999.
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/whitelie.html
Pastors can't agree;
Samuele
Bacchiocchi, Ph. D. Retired Professor of Theology, Andrews University;
http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/eti_88.html
We had been
taught that all of her prophecies had come true, or soon would, that she
had written all of her books as her angel guided her hand. That her
helpers only corrected her spelling and punctuation.
I needed answers.
About
this time the Dr. Davenport 29 million dollar bankruptcy against the
church was going on. My accountant worked for the firm that audited the
North Pacific Union's books each year. He showed me what was going
on from the 1980 Financial statement. They had been hiding click on;
"THE DAVENPORT LOANS"
as an asset in the "Agency and Demand Fund". Also the Oregon
Conference Attorney was a member of the Gaston church and a friend of
mine. He told me that 1/2 million dollars from the "Tithe Reserve Fund"
had been used in building the new Oregon Conference office building.
They had loaned Davenport the building fund with the promise he would
pay it back when they needed it. He went bankrupt before he paid it back
so they had to use the tithe reserve fund to pay the bills and keep
building. They simply exchanged the Tithe fund for a non-tithe fund and
gave it to Davenport claiming no tithe funds were used. The money had
not been paid back at the time they were saying no tithe funds had been
used. I had gotten a list of all the people who had invested in Dr.
Davenport and the huge percentages they had been repaid for their
personal investments. It read like a Who's Who in Adventist Leadership
clear up to the General Conference President.
You
can read the manuscript of a book, written by Walter Rea about it. The
book was never published as part of a deal made with Walter Rae to get
his retirement - I believe. Walter sent me a copy of the
manuscript, which was later lost in the mail after 9/11. The book was
called; "Pirates of Privilege" you can read a poorly scanned copy of it
now on the internet for free at:
http://www.bible.ca/7-pirates-of-privilege.htm
My faith in God's Chosen
People was fast passing. I needed answers.
Then Desmond
Ford was fired for not believing in the Investigative Judgment.
A must see video of Desmond
Ford in 2008;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW9yPT3MGXY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacier_View_controversy
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw53.htm
http://members.aol.com/LarryPahl/part7.htm
Witness to
Glacier View interview;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HwH07fz1CY
To understand what was going on at the time listen to the videos of
Walter Rae and Desmond Ford being interviewed on the
John Ankerberg Show
at;
http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Video/tabid/502/Default.aspx
WHAT DID DESMOND
FORD SAY AT HIS GLACIER VIEW TRIAL ;
http://en.allexperts.com:80/q/Seventh-Day-Adventists-2318/Dr-Ford-Glacier-View.htm
I had
watched this at the time.
I needed
answers.
All we were getting from, The
Leadership, was God told Ellen White which stuff to copy and no tithe
funds were taken and we needed to pay a double tithe for a few years.
To read an
OUTSIDERS view of what was going on;
Monday, Aug. 02, 1982
The Church of Liberal Borrowings
By Richard N. Ostling
Plagiarism and fraud charges rock the
Seventh-day Adventists The 3.8
million-member Seventh-day Adventist Church is normally the
most doctrinally placid and prosperous of faiths. Lately,
however, it has fallen into unaccustomed uproar. For
starters, church members are suing Adventist officials in an
Oregon court for fraud and breach of fiduciary trust,
stemming from the 1981 bankruptcy of fellow Adventist Donald
Davenport, a Los Angeles developer. The suit charges that
without adequately checking Davenport out, Adventist clergy
blithely invested church trust funds with him and urged
church members to make their own investments. As his empire
collapsed, Davenport supposedly used newly raised moneys to
cover payments due to previous investors. In the end, church
agencies dropped a cool $21 million, and individual
Adventists may be out as much as $20 million in the debacle.
On top of this, the church has been hit by a second scandal:
the charge that the theological writings of its most
important figure, which rank second only to the Bible, may
have been plagiarized from other authors.
Of the two scandals, the second could
prove the costlier, as it calls into question the integrity
of the church's teachings. Prophet Ellen G. White
(1827-1915) rallied the group that became known as the
Adventists following the "Great Disappointment" of Oct. 22,
1844, the date when thousands of Protestants expected the
Second Coming (or Advent) of Jesus Christ to occur. When it
did not, White, a "messenger" of God and interpreter of the
Bible, said she received a vision explaining that on Oct. 22
Christ had entered a new "sanctuary" in heaven to begin "the
investigative judgment" of the lives and works of believers.
Then White reported a second vision that confirmed the
necessity of Saturday worship (hence the name Seventh-day
Adventists). Followers came to regard White's numerous
visions and books as divinely inspired interpretations of
the Bible, as well as a guide to proper views on everything
from vegetarianism (pro) to Darwinism (con).
Now a growing number of Adventists are
having their doubts about White's teachings. In the late
1970s, Desmond Ford, a prominent Australian theologian who
was teaching at the church-run Pacific Union College in
California, made the case that White's "sanctuary"
explication of 1844 no longer stood up in the light of the
Bible, and that "the investigative judgment" undercut the
whole basis of Protestantism: belief in salvation by God's
grace apart from good works. This prompted the founding of a
dissident bimonthly, Evangelica, based in Napa, Calif.
Before long, the church forced the resignation or expulsion,
by one count, of 120 Adventist clergy and teachers. Ford was
defrocked in 1980.
Ford's challenge was mild, however,
compared with the bombshell dropped by Walter T. Rea of
Patterson, Calif. A veteran pastor, Rea, in the course of
Ph.D. research, stumbled across some long-buried writings by
forgotten divines that matched huge swatches of Prophet
White's books. Accusations of this general nature had arisen
before but had been argued away by Adventist officials. Rea
was the first to document the vast scale of such borrowing
(from 75 assorted books on history, doctrine and the Bible).
Last April, Rea issued his full findings in a bitter book
titled The White Lie. In it he concludes that the
"plagiarism" undermines belief not only in the prophet's
divine inspiration but also in her basic honesty. One
Adventist, Delbert Hodder, a pediatrician and teacher at the
University of Connecticut, has offered an altogether
different explanation. When White was nine years old she was
hit in the head by a rock and seriously injured. Hodder
speculates that her visions were the result of
"partial-complex seizure," a malady related to epilepsy.
Prodded by Rea, the church has been forced
to give ground. Last month, Ministry, its magazine for
clergy, conceded that White's use of "outside sources" was
"much more extensive" than Adventists have realized.
Admitted Ministry: "Sometimes she used material nearly word
for word without giving credit." Most shocking of all, "She
utilized the words of prior authors in describing words she
heard spoken while in vision. In a few instances, she uses
the writings of a 19th century source in quoting the words
of Christ or of an angelic guide."
Despite these admissions, Church President
Neal Wilson holds to the position that a prophet's thoughts
can be divinely inspired even though they are not original.
And loyal Adventists have taken to defending White's
plagiarism as acceptable practice, arguing that parts of the
Bible too were compiled from pre-existing sources. The
church's last General Conference, in 1980, confirmed White
as a latter-day prophet whose "writings are a continuing and
authoritative source of truth."
A full report on the church's
investigation of White's sources is due next year.
Meanwhile, in the second edition of his book Rea plans to
charge that White's last and most important works were
actually fabricated by Adventist pioneers when she was
senile. Whatever the outcome, Georgetown University Ethicist
Roy Branson, editor of Spectrum, an independent journal for
church liberals, says flatly that Adventists will no longer
be able to appeal to White as "the final authority on a
whole range of issues, including biblical and theological
interpretation and life-style." If so, the Seventh-day
Adventists would seem to have lost a resource more precious
than the millions that went down the drain. —By Richard N.
Ostling. Reported by Jim Castelli/Washington and Dick
Thompson/San Francisco
When
no one would answer my questions, I decided to put it all out of my
mind and quietly go my way. I stopped going to the Hillsboro SDA church,
and started going to a non-denominational church with my wife Linda. I
couldn't believe the difference. They studied the Bible only.
When I was asked by the Hillsboro SDA pastor, Elder
Whitehead, if I wanted to have my name removed from the books, I said,
"why do you ask?" He said; they were cleaning up their membership books,
and my name had come up. He said; that the church board meeting was in a
week. I asked; if I had the right to be there and speak for myself? He
seemed surprised I would want to be. He said, "yes, I guess you
do."
So
I was there with all my questions and documentation. The Pastor said,
the Church handbook said, they had to let me speak for myself, I was
there to defend myself. He invited me up front. I asked them my
questions and showed them my documentation. They had never heard of the
things or read the documentation I was reading to them before. They were
shocked to say the least. They asked me questions from 7:30 until
midnight. I kept showing them all the documentation to support my
claims.
When Pastor Whitehead asked. If I believed Ellen G. White was as
inspired as any other Bible writer. I said, "Of course not; after
showing you all this documentation do you?" The pastor had been
wanting to take a vote for a couple hours, as it was getting really
late. Everyone asked him to answer my questions. He said, he wished he
could, as he knew many people had the same questions I had, but he
didn't have the answers. Oh! how he wished he hadn't called me. I'm sure
that was a board meeting he'll never forget. If you have come to the
same beliefs as I have, never give up with out a fight, it's not for
you, but for all the members that are asleep to the facts and
documentation. They simply have never seen or heard it before. It's your
responsibility to show them.

As it turns out many of the leaders of the church didn't believe Ellen
White was inspired. after she died they met in 1919 to discuss the
matter. Read about it by clicking below.
http://www.bible.ca/7-1919-sda-conference.htm
I still
needed answers.
I
said, "To say Ellen White was the “Messenger of the Lord” meant
she was speaking for God Almighty. I couldn’t see that as being any
different than the Pope claiming to speak for God." Maybe you can? I
could not! To me it was blasphemy! I had many Godly teachers. I was
taught in SDA schools not to lie. I simply had studied my way out of
Adventism. I still haven't gotten any answers.
The
pastor asked me if I believed I had to be a member of the Seventh Day
Adventist church in order to be saved. I said, "No". He said, "You all
heard him, so lets take a vote". They didn't want to if I still wanted
to be a member. I said, "Look, thanks for letting me talk. If any of you
had been able to answer my questions, I would still want to be a member.
They voted to take my name off the books. I said thanks, now I know God
wants me to move on with my life. Good-by and God bless you."
My
friends and classmates talked to me for another hour in the parking lot.
It was hard to say good-bye. I was forty three years old, yet I cried
all the way home. I have tears in my eyes just writing about it now
twenty six years later. It's not because I feel sorry for myself. I'm
sorry no one had the answers. I truly love my Adventist family,
classmates and friends. I want so much to see them in heaven.
My whole family was kicked out that night. None of them were there,
questioned about their desires, or contacted personally.
I
realized I would never get any answers from the church, so the search
for answers had to be my doing; no one else could do it for me. I don't
know why it took me so long to realize that was, and is, the only answer
for everyone. No one can do it for you.
That's what this site is all about, but it's my journey
not yours. It's my hope that my journey will be of some help to you, but
you must take the journey on your own. God will guide you into all
"Truth". Be willing to follow Him where ever that may be. You must put
away all your preconceived "ideas"; your bias. Put aside your Ellen
White books for a while and study your Bible only. It may take some
getting use to. But the only real Truth is in His word.
The coming of Christ is near!
The
spirit of God is begging you to get ready. You must study your bible
like never before. Before you start reading this web site, please turn
off your television, get your Bible out and follow along. It will take
your full attention! Read every verse I quote, and read the whole
chapter before and after. You must get a clear understanding. Never take
my word for it or anyone else‘s. If I’m wrong about all of this, I will
die a lost man. I know that. What If you are wrong?
You must decide, you must think for yourself. The minister
can’t do it for you. 3abn or the Hope channel can’t think for you. You
and you alone must decide. Your destiny is on the line. Is the God you
serve real or not? Can your God foretell the future? If He can’t He’s
not God! Can Ellen G. White foretell the future? If not she is a false
prophet and is not to be feared or believed. It’s a test between her and
God Almighty. You must make the choice. Whom will you serve?
It’s the least of my worries what people will
think of me. But, God will hold you accountable for whom you worship.
I’m no writer! I’m not the smartest guy in the world either, but I can’t
sit by and not warn you of what’s ahead. I love the Lord God Almighty
with all my heart and soul. I stopped being a Seventh day Adventist, and
without knowing it, I became a Seven day Christian. It’s kind of like an
Amway salesmen, who can’t stop talking about their products.
The
Lord is always on my mind. I can’t stop talking about His prophesies
and, dear friends of mine, God is about to fulfill every last one of
them. If you really believed that some one knew the future and the
future meant life or death to your friends, wouldn’t you tell them? It’s
all in His Word. It’s coming like a thief in the night! Please wake up!
Please, let me do my best to prove it to you. We are to test the
Prophets to see if they are of God. You can’t go wrong by obeying Gods
Word. The world is racing headlong into the greatest time of trouble
mankind has ever faced. I’m not the one saying it. It’s in your Bible. I
have listed some of the prophesies for you, in the hope that you will
see that God is real. He alone knows the future.
He means what He says, and says what He
means!
WE CAN’T CHANGE IT!
More
than anything else, you who have never been outside the bounds of the
Adventist faith, need to know what other churches think of your beliefs.
I hope this website will inform you. I’ve written this study in the form
of questions. I have also stated my reason for asking those questions.
They are my reasons as I see it. I don’t want you to take my reasons as
the final word on the subject. You must be able to give an answer to
these questions on your own. There are many texts in the bible, which I
have not quoted, on the subject. You must hunt for them to form your own
answers. All I would ask is that you use the bible as your main source
for truth. Read all the history, concordances, dictionaries and
religious books you want but only if they agree with the bible. We were
taught that Ellen G. White was as inspired as any other bible writer.
She claimed to be, the
lesser
light,
helping us to understand the
Greater light
the bible. I now look at her
writings as a flashlight looking for the sun. Go directly to the Greater
Light.
From
my youth I have been asking questions. I remember asking dad where I
came from once and he told me to go ask mom. I did and she said I came
from her belly. I asked her how I got in there. I once asked dad why a
black calf had a white face. Dad told me it was because its mother was a
Hereford and its daddy was an Angus bull. I once asked if a black man
and white woman had a baby would the baby have a white face. Dad told me
I asked too many questions. Dad would get tired of me asking questions
he couldn’t answer and would say;
“IT’S
SO - BECAUSE I SAID IT'S SO.”
I asked, "But dad, why so?"
I
started asking my School Teachers, Sabbath School Teachers and Pastors
questions about our church. They would say;
"IT’S SO BECAUSE ELLEN WHITE
SAID, IT’S SO."
I’m sorry that not good enough
anymore. So I asked the Biblical Research Inst., and the President of
the General Conference of Seventh Day Adventist himself.
They won’t even take the time to read my questions
let alone answer them.
Most respond by wanting me to buy a book that Ellen White or someone
else wrote on the subject. I’ve already read most of them. That was my
problem they were only trying to make the bible fit what Ellen White had
said. That's why the Biblical Research committee set up
"The Daniel Committee"
to try and make the Investigative Judgment biblical. Raymond Cottrell
was the leader, I would think you would want to read his last
sermon, before his death.
click here
http://www.jesusinstituteforum.org/AssetOrLiability.html
My closest friends, who have read my questions and my
reasons for asking them, respond as follows;
1.
Ron, you always took things too seriously, I never
believed that stuff. I do believe Adventist are the closest to the Truth
though. I believe the Sabbath. I’ll always be SDA.
2. I can’t answer your questions, I’ve never read
Josephus or The Coming Prince etc. and I don’t have the time. Anyway,
if it has nothing to do with our salvation, why worry about it? I do
believe we’re right about the Sabbath.
3. The church doesn’t kick people out for not believing
EGW anymore. They have made many changes. You need to come back, or you
will be lost.
4.
Your Adventist heritage should mean more to you. Why be so critical?
5.
You need help with spelling and punctuation, other than
that every Adventist needs to read your booklet, it’s right on. Great
job! From an x-sda pastor, his website is;
http://www.exadventist.com/
That’s
about what I expected. The one thing most of you, as members, need to
worry about most is the fact that none of your leaders will even try to
answer any of the questions. They simply don’t respond. The questions
won’t go away; they are at the base of all the “unique” teachings of
Adventism. They must be answered. They are the pillars of the SDA faith.
They need not be, indeed they must not be, for they are not biblical in
anyway. They affect our view of the future. Worse, they are contrary to
the gospel.
The fact that we have claimed Ellen
White to be the “End Time Prophet” has made it impossible to change. Yet
she said, before her death,
“There
are many things we must learn
and
many things we must unlearn.”
The
worst thing that happened to the church has been the internet. Here’s
your chance to make it work for the SDA church.
I
still want answers, if you can give them to me. Please do so,
I‘ll put them on this website. I’ll put your answers right below
my answers. I beg you to make it known to the members of the Adventist
church. They desperately need answers. You are not doing it for me, but
for them. Twenty years ago I asked the White Estates to please
send me a list of the prophesies, our end time prophet, Ellen White had
made that came true. A few years ago, they came out with “Messenger of
the Lord”. Dwight Nelson sent me one for Christmas. Thanks again Dwight.
In it they list 82 visions
she had, out of over 2000 she claimed to have had. 82 out of 2000 isn’t
very good odds. Out of the 82, 13 have been already proven false. If the
questions I ask and my reasons for asking can not be answered, chances
are pretty good that;
NONE OF THE REST OF HER
PROPHECIES WILL COME TRUE EITHER.

Born to believe it all came from God
PILLARS OF
"SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTISM"
While a small boy I
remember sitting on the front row of a movie theater that the church had
rented to hold evangelistic meetings in.
(They didn’t want anyone to know it was SDA.)
To understand go to;
Truthful Evangelism
http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/column/2008/08/22/truthful_evangelism
Elder Gladden was the preacher.
I liked his cute little daughter Sharon. We sat on the front row
together and listened to her father. We may have been in the third grade
at the time. I know my folks never missed a meeting. I liked that!
I’ll never forget the image of Daniel 2 with
the head of gold, the breast and arms of silver, thighs of brass and
legs of iron. Its feet and ten toes were of iron mixed with clay. The
head of gold was Babylon. The breast and arms of silver was Medo-Persia.
The thighs of brass were Greece, and the legs of iron were Rome. The ten
toes were the ten nations Rome was divided into after its fall. He told
us the two legs represented pagan and papal Rome.

A few years ago, I began thinking about the two legs, pagan and papal
Rome. They may have merged, but they didn’t split. Maybe it was western
Rome and eastern Rome that split into. One Pope ruled in Rome and one
ruled in Constantinople. The Eastern leg out lasted the Western leg by
nearly 700 years.
Those nations today
are all Muslim. Could they be the ten nations that are mentioned in Eze.
38 and 39?
All of these kingdoms will still be
around when Christ comes the second time. All have come against Israel
in the past and will again in the last days. All will be destroyed at
Christ coming. Today they are Iraq, (Babylon) Iran, (Persia) Western
Rome, (Catholic Italy) and (The old Roman empires of the eastern leg),
Greece/Turkey/Egypt/Assyrian and all the rest of the Muslim nations.
Daniel 2:44,45.
44.
And in the days of these kings
shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be
destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people,
but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms,
and it shall stand for ever.
45.
Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of
the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the
iron, the
brass, the
clay, the
silver, and the
gold; the great God hath made known
to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is
certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
They are the seven mountains of
Revelation 17:7-14.
7.
And the angel said unto me,
Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the
mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth
her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8.
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and
shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into
perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall
wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life
from the foundation of the world, when they behold the
beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9.
And here is the mind which hath wisdom.
The seven heads are seven
mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10.
And there are seven kings:
five are fallen, and
one is, and the
other is not yet come; and
when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
NOTICE;
1.
Egypt,
2.
Assyrian,
3.
Babylon,
4.
Persia,
5.
Greece,
had fallen by John's time.
Rome
is during John's vision and is later divided into two
legs 6.
Western Rome
Catholic's,
7.
Eastern Greek
Orthodox, overtaken by the Muslims that were defeated in
1099 AD (deadly wound)
8.
Today's
Muslim world (deadly wound being healed).
11.
And the beast that was, (Eastern Rome Muslims
from
636-1099) and
is not, even he is the
eighth, (Today's Muslims)
and is of the
seventh, and goeth into
perdition.
NOTE:
The beast that was Greek Orthodox Turkey was defeated by
Islam, but becomes the 8th kingdom of the Muslims in the
end times when they become the ten kings of Eze. 38,39.
12.
And the ten horns which
thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no
kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with
the beast. (At
the Gog and Magog battle).
TURKEY WAS THE LAST HOLDOUT IN THE TEN NATIONS THAT COME
AGAINST ISRAEL. THAT NOW HAS ENDED;
http://www.debka.com/article_print.php?aid=1371
WATCH THE FOLLOWING VIDEO;
http://www.littlehornarchive.com/landscape.html
13.
These have one mind, and shall give their power
and strength unto the beast.
(Anti-christ)
14.
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb
shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King
of kings: and they that are with him are called, and
chosen, and faithful.
"
NEW "
JUST
RELEASED
"God's War On Terror"
by Walid Shoebat
http://www.shoebat.com/book_gods_war_on_terror.php?PHPSESSID=ad7cb2ccc2dc8a77945e12bea93ed02c
AS
WALID SHOEBAT
SAYS, "ALL THE NATIONS, THAT ARE MENTIONED BY NAME IN
THE BIBLE, THAT ARE CAST INTO THE PIT IN THE END TIMES
ARE MUSLIN TODAY".
TO WATCH GO TO
GOOGLE VIDEO. ADD
WALID SHOEBAT A1-7, TO THE SEARCH LINE. WATCH ALL
PARTS, THEN B1-7 AND C1-8
Listen to
Brigitte
Gabriel at the following;
"NEW"
OBSESSION THE MOVIE
A must see!
full movie
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7057936494064976215&ei=oh5tSabcPKq6qAP6tuXZCA&q=obsession+the+movie+full
___________________________________________________________________________________
ELLEN WHITES "END TIMES"
VISIONS
I HAVE YET TO READ, OR HAVE ANYONE
SHOW ME, A TRULY SUPER-NATURAL WITHOUT DOUBT PROPHECY, THAT ELLEN WHITE
MADE THAT CAME TRUE. IF YOU CAN PLEASE SEND IT TO ME.
You may read SDA
replies so far by left clicking on the underlined below.
SDA Reply;
Doctor
Rick Cabero from the Alaska Conference" I answered you not as
SDA Church or an Alaska Conference
representative. I answered you
representing myself.
Two good SDA websites in
support of Ellen White visions;
http://www.seventh-day.org/testsofproph.htm and
http://www.ellenwhitedefend.com/test_of_prophet.htm
My
answer to the above websites is;
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw35.htm
You be the judge.
Think of the impact it
would have made on all the people at that meeting if Elder Gladden could
have read, prophecy after prophecy, from the “End Time Prophet”, Ellen
White. (The meeting took
place about 1950)
WW2 had just ended. So I think I have good reason to ask, why
didn't she have anything to say about WWI and WWII?
Why did German Adventist support Hitler;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVBptfAxGOs&feature=related

WORLD WAR ONE
WORLD WAR TWO
click
on SDA answers below;
SDA Answers:
My name is Bob
Pickle, and I reside near Halstad, MN.
Wouldn’t an
end time prophet have foretold about six million Jews being killed?


Why
wouldn’t she have mentioned the Atom Bomb?

What if she had foretold about tanks
and ships?
What if she had foretold about
airplanes?

Why
didn’t she foretell about Missiles, Rockets and men going to the moon?
Click;
SDA ANSWER;
Just watch this 60 minute video if you want proof God made the Universe
http://truthnet.org/forum/index.php?topic=171.msg809#msg809
Radar, Radio, TV, Computers,

What if
she had said, Israel will be a nation again instead of saying we replace
the Jews and “Jerusalem would never be built up again” EW. Pg. 75.
Photo
of Jerusalem taken in 1920

2005
Video about the END TIME
PROPHECY about Israel. Click below;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmF_WFX1YWw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNCZim_OYaU&feature=related
Click;
What
Ellen White wrote;
If Ellen
White had foretold about any of these things, think of the millions who
would have accepted her as a true prophet.
Common sense should
tell you she was not an "End Time Prophet"
What
we got instead was the 2300 days and Investigative Judgment. I had to
draw the whole 2300 days, chart of Daniel 8:14, while in Church
Doctrines class at Laurelwood Academy. I was good at art and got an “A”
on the chart. Now, I think back on it and realize, I didn’t have a clue,
as to why it was, as I had drawn it. If I had drawn it any other way, I
would have gotten an “F”. I had drawn it as I was told. I didn’t even
begin to think about it for myself. Most of us, even today, don’t read
the whole text. Why not? Well! You say, the text is upon the screen, we
don’t have the time to read the whole text. Right you are! There’s a
reason for that today. In years past, it wasn’t so clear; many SDA
preachers thought they were giving us the truth.
Not anymore.
Most Adventist scholars, teachers, and preachers today know full
well they are not telling you the truth. To prove it ask them to answer
these questions.
Laurelwood
Academy, Mr. Holmes holding chart
Famous 1844
chart

We need
to take a closer look at this chart again later. Okay?
Now after all of these years I
have a lot of questions about this chart, and the whole 1844 belief. In
this site are my questions. These questions are designed to make you
think about your beliefs. No one has the right to
question another persons belief if they can't state their REASON FOR
ASKING THE QUESTION.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2005 Ellen White Summit
TODAY'S ADVENTIST
CHURCHES
For a Seventh Day Adventist there are now at least three options.
You can now be a baptized member and hold any of these beliefs.
A-HISTORIC,
B-PROGRESSIVE,
C-EVANGELICAL.
CLICK ON THE ABOVE TO LEARN THE
DIFFERENCE.
WHICH ONE DO YOU CLAIM TO BE?
Allen Thompson's
explanation his view of the three;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ2AD09HvWg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6tkn01iJoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKpoaDvlb4
The
Historic approach was taught up until the 1980's.
Thousands were kicked-out for no longer believing it. If many, great
Godly leaders, pastors, teachers and members had been given
the
Evangelical choice
their membership would not have been dropped from the Seventh Day
Adventist church. But, they may have stopped studying. I'm so glad
God didn't let that happen. You'll never understand why other
Christians believe the way they do until you're outside of
Adventism. You'll find out where I stand, relating to these three
options, toward the end of this study.
I was
hoping when the, 2005 Ellen White Summit took place I would hear
just what position the church had taken. Listen to the summit at the
following links. Watch all 1-8 videos. There are eight hours of
talks.
TO WATCH THE SUMMIT "LEFT CLICK" ON EACH HOUR BELOW;
(wait it will come up. You really need DSL) You can now get this at
http://ellenwhitesummit.foxyresearch.com/ if Google doesn't
work.
1.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9085323260620531077&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT
George Knight
2.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2182775077577403071&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT
Craig Newborn
3.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2730658588415094914&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT
Jud Lake
4.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-218670502478132319&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT
Jud Lake
Some responses;
http://newprotestants.com/rejudlake.htm and
A MUST READ; Dale Ratzlaff's (who left because he
became a
PROGRESSIVE EVANGELICAL) wrote an open
letter to Dr. Jud Lake's (video 3) condemnation of him. Go to the 12th
page of his magazine Proclamation! Click on;
http://lifeassuranceministries.org/Proclamation2006_NovDec.pdf
Jud Lakes answer
http://ellenwhiteanswers.org/critics/Razlaff
5.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8655009682505291165&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT
George Knight
6.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7873458851587026338&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT
Jon Paulien
7.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5001191673779117600&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT
Jon Paulien
Q@A.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6859867949517899475&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT
The Group
TO FIND
OUT WHAT OTHER ADVENTISTS THOUGHT OF THE SUMMIT GO TO;
http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/5371/4694.html?1159701092
It
appears they have gone Progressive, or
are heading in that direction. The Historic
Adventist are now the fanatics.
When I was baptized in 1952 we
had to come up front and sit on the front row while the pastor read
a list of questions. We had to state in front of the church that we
believed, and would follow, all the doctrines he stated;
1.
We would not work from sunset Friday night until sunset
Saturday night and keep all the ten commandments perfectly.
2.
We believed in the investigative judgment began in 1844. and that
Jesus was coming in this generation and I must be purified from all
sin and evil before his coming.
3.
We had to believe in Ellen White as a true prophet and the
only infallible interpreter of the Bible.
4.
We had to state that we would support the church with offerings and
1/10 of our income as tithe.
5.
As kids in church school we signed a temperance pledge that we would
never smoke or drink alcohol, coffee or coke. We had to reaffirm
that commitment.
6.
We would never go to the theater, (the same movies were okay
if they were shown at church socials), play pool (except on a Carom
board at home), cards (except Rook) or gamble in anyway (except for
marbles).
7.
We would never eat unclean meat. (we would never go to heaven alive
if we ate meat of any kind and our prayers would never be answered).
8.
We would dress as Christians. (The women couldn't wear jeans
and had to wear long brown socks. No sleeveless or see through
blouses. They could wear jeans only under their dress if they were
working. Their dresses had to be below the knees).
9.
We would never ware jewelry.
10.
We would never marry out of the Truth, or send our children
to non-SDA church schools.
11.
We wouldn't go to the theater or dance hall. (skating rink was okay
and pupil swimming pools were okay)
12.
We would never cuss or take the name of the Lord in vain.
And a whole lot more I can't
think of anymore. There's 28, very differently worded, questions
now.
YOU CAN GET A
COPY OF THE 1932, (good until 1980), CHURCH MANUAL AT;
VERY CHURCH
LEADER, PASTOR AND TEACHER NEEDS TO KNOW ALL SIDES OF AN ISSUE IN
ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM. YOU CAN'T SOLVE ANYTHING, BE IT
RELIGIOUS OR SECULAR, WITHOUT ETHIS UNDERSTANDING. THIS SITE IS FOR
THAT PURPOSE.
To go to the top leading
Historic Adventist
websites;
http://www.sdaapostasy.org/
http://www.remnantofgod.org/
http://www.stepstolife.org/html/home_church.html
http://www.davidiansda.org/ansaud1.htm
http://www.shepherds-rod.org/
http://www.davidian.org/
http://www.shepherds-rod-message.org/
http://www.originaldavidianmessage.org/index.shtml
Click on Dan.2, at top right corner. Be sure
to listen to all 24 short segments. You'll understand what the
writings of Ellen White has done for the Historic Seventh Day
Adventist church.
I found another
group that call themselves REFORM ADVENTIST they write;
The Seven Faces of Seventh-day
Adventism.
|
Identifying
the seven spirits of the church. click below; |
http://www.everythingimportant.org/gospel/7faces.htm
All
of the above sites believe Ellen White is as inspired as any other
bible writer. They all claim to be the only true Seventh Day
Adventist church.

What do Adventists believe? Go ask what language was spoken by the
people after the Lord confused their tongues at Babel. Adventism is
a second Babel.... But Seventh-day Adventists say "We are united; we
believe alike." Partly true, but they are only one branch of this
Advent Babel..... Such a brood of errors and heresies as has
resulted from Adventism, cannot be found in the history of the
church before. Gracious! And these are the people sent with a
"message" to warn the world! They had better go back and learn and
agree on what their "message" is before they run to deliver it.
D.M. Canright
THE BATTLE STILL
RAGES TODAY;
http://www.qod.andrews.edu/downloads.html
THE PROBLEM
STILL REMAINS. YOU CAN'T DO AWAY WITH ALL OF THE EGW STATEMENTS;
“As the son of man was perfect in His life, so His followers are to be
PERFECT
in their life. A well-balanced character is formed by single acts well
performed. One defect, cultivated instead of being overcome, makes the man
imperfect, and closes against him the gates of the Holy City… In all the
redeemed host not one defect will be seen… “THE FAITH I LIVE BY” pg.44.
“Christ has given us no assurance that to attain
perfection of character is an easy matter.” MY LIFE TODAY, pg. 271
“We can overcome. Yes;
entirely. Jesus died to make a way of escape for us, that we might
overcome evil temper, every sin. Every temptation…”
1T pg.144.
“Not even a thought did
He, yield to temptation. So it may be with us.”
Desire of Ages, pg 123.
“In order to let Jesus
into our hearts, we must stop sinning.” Signs of
the times” Mar. 3, 1898
“To be redeemed means to
cease from sin.” Review and Herald Sept. 25, 1900.
“….
conversion is not complete until he
attains to perfection of Christian
character.” 2T pg.505.
“Human beings may in
this life attain to perfection of
character.” Acts of Apostles, pg. 531.
“Perfection
of character is
attainable by every one who strives for it.” Selected Messages Vol.1, pg. 212
“Every man’s work passes in review before God and is registered for faithfulness
or
unfaithfulness. Opposite each name in the books of heaven is entered
with terrible exactness every wrong word,
every
selfish act, every
unfulfilled duty, and every
secret sin, with every
artful
dissembling. Heaven sent warning or
reproofs, neglected
wasted moments,
unimproved
opportunities, the influence exerted for
good or evil, with it’s far reaching results; all are chronicled by the
recording Angel.” GC. Pg. 482
And
the list goes ON and ON!
All the Historic Adventist
believe it won't be long and they alone will be the144,000 perfect
Remnant
Historic Adventist that are left.
They believe you must leave the Babylon,
Progressive, Evangelical,
Seventh Day Adventist church NOW, and
join them, before the Pope brings in the
Sunday law
and the
death decree.
They maybe right. That's what the church taught us for years. Why
change now? You must decide.
After watching
all eight videos, of the Ellen White summit, I still don't get it.
Am I to believe that only the thoughts of Ellen White were inspired,
and not necessarily her words? How do you put your thoughts on paper
without using words? Are we to take only the words her angel told
her? Who decides which thoughts are inspired? Maybe they should come
out with a
red letter edition.
It's not the
copying, that I find problems with, it's that she claimed it all
came from God;
|
"In my books, the truth is
stated, barricaded by a ‘Thus saith the Lord.’ The Holy Spirit
traced these truths upon my heart and mind as indelibly as the
law was traced by the finger of God upon the tables of stone."
Letter 90, 1906.
"In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I
am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I
do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own
ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the
precious rays of light shining from the throne." Testimonies 5
p. 67. |
“God was speaking through clay.
You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, it was
a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your
minds things that had been shown me. In
these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am
presenting to you that which the Lord has presented
to
me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely
my own ideas. They are what God has opened
before me in vision --the precious rays of light
shining from the throne…”
(letter to Dr. Paulson; St. Helena, California, June 14,
1906, Selected Messages pp 24—37)
|
"There is
one straight chain of truth without one heretical
sentence in that which I have
written."
—Ellen G.
White, Letter 329A, 1905. |
|
|
{5T 682} "Those who are reproved by the
Spirit of God should not rise up against the humble
instrument. It is God, not an erring mortal who has spoken
to save them from ruin." (Context: her Testimonies)
{5T 66} "If you seek to turn
the counsel of God to suit yourselves, if you lesson the
confidence of God's people in the testimonies (in the context of
her writings) He has sent them, you are rebelling against God as
certainly as were Korah, Dathan and Abiram.
{3SM 32} "The Bible must be
your counselor. Study it and the testimonies God has given; for
they never contradict His word. (Again this is talking about the
Testimonies written by White.)On the same page: "This (White's
message) is now come before the people because it has been given
to correct specious errors and to specify what is truth."
"If the Testimonies speak not
according to this word of God, reject them. Christ and Belial
cannot be united.{3SM 30} The Holy Ghost is the Author of the
Scriptures and the Spirit of Prophecy."
The next page Ellen speaks of
how she received God's light. "The power of God would come upon
me and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is
error." White claims her messages are from God and do not
conflict with the Bible. Yet we found there are many things that
she writes that are in direct contrast with God's word. What
were we to think? The Bible says that the Holy Spirit will lead
us to all truth. So we must choose to be led by Him and not Mrs.
White.
TAKEN FROM A LETTER AT;
http://www.mmoutreachinc.com/seventh_day_adventists/resignation.html
|
After hearing George Knight say, during the
Q@A section,
that a whole lot of bible prophecies never came true either. I
wondered why I should believe the bible at all,
for that is the test of a true prophet.
No! friends, it is not true that
all Bible prophecy is conditional. If you
haven't taken God at His word, to you it is conditional. But today
Bible prophecy is being fulfilled right before our eyes and
Adventist can't see it because it doesn't fit Ellen Whites visions
of the end times.
We will go through these prophecies in the questions that are on
this site. When Ellen Whites past prophecies failed they called them
conditional. Yet today all of her future prophecies make the bible
prophecies unfulfillable, so they have made the bible prophecies
conditional too.
Below is a theology class at Calvary Chapel with David Hocking as
teacher. Click on the topics at the right side to get a full view of
all the classes.
Is the bible true?
http://www.radiofreechurch.com/speaker_display/2?topic=49
Adventist
response to George Knight's statement;
http://cafesda.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_cafesda_archive.html
We're supposed to
use
common sense.
We'll talk about
the common sense issues, as we go along,
because I agree with that statement.
Maybe an example of thought inspiration is
"THE CLEAR WORD BIBLE". The verbal words from God were taken
out and Ellen Whites inspired thoughts where put in, right? Who
decided?
Do you get the point? You can
now get around any statement by simply claiming it was verbal and
not thought out.
Whoa! That don't make
common sense
to me.
For a Great story to
illustrate what the summit was like;
click on;
http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/FiveStudentsParable.txt
____________________________________________________________________________
OKAY! YOU SAID, YOU WANTED TO ANSWER OUR
QUESTIONS.
HERE IS A BIG ONE !
SHOULD
WE FORGET
OCT. 22, 1844
AND
2300 DAYS?
This question has yet to be
answered biblically, yet more scholars, preachers and teachers, have
been kicked out of the SDA church over,
just asking, this question than any other. Why? We
need a clear cut answer.
YES
or NO.
Was it verbally inspired, or was it thought inspired? Did she get it
from William Miller or her angel? If it was thought inspired, but
her words about it weren't inspired, who gets to decide? May I give
you a make believe example of what I mean?
"Last nite
thile sleepin I had tought from God. I tri and tell ya that
inspirited tought to you with own words. Where go's; T'was as if a
lite from heavn filed the rom I twere takn up. And the tought's of
broter Crower was shewn me. he were in corn filled, a vison came
from God an tell him he were to tell us Jesus left wholly place in
heaven and went to most wholly place in 1844." pardon me words not
form God." E.G. Black.
I'm not trying to make fun of
Ellen White. I've tried to read some of her handwriting. It's hard
to understand the writings of a person with a third grade education.
It's not to hard for me to believe her words were not inspired.
Seems
like
common sense
to me.
Here's what Crozier saw in
the corn field; Day-Star Extra, February 7, 1846 BY O. R. L.
Crozier;
http://www.truthorfables.com/Crosier_Renounces_Shut_Door.htm
Here's what
Hiram Edson saw in the corn field;
http://www.truthorfables.com/Edson's
Now that the church is more
progressive, I
have a few more questions for the church Leaders, Preachers,
Teachers and Scholars to answer. If they won't it will soon be time
for the membership to
answer.
PLEASE! To the historic
Adventist this is a life or death matter!
BELOW IS
A MUST READ FOR EVERY ADVENTIST WHO IS FACED WITH THE CHOICE, AM I
LOST IF I'M NOT HISTORIC? WHAT IF I HAVE BECOME A
PROGRESSIVE
EVANGELICAL.?
ADVENTIST ACADEMY SPEARHEADS
ATTACK AGAINST DALE RATZAFF;
http://adventistsnotcult.blogspot.com/2008/01/collegedale-academy-spearheads-attack.html
http://adventistsnotcult.blogspot.com/2008/01/ratzlaff-discredited-this-witness-has.html
http://adventistsnotcult.blogspot.com/2008/01/ratzlaff-conclusion-faulty-conscience.html
I'M NOT A PART
OF THIS GROUP, BUT ENJOYED LISTENING TO THEM. HOPING TO HEAR THE
TRUTH FROM THE BIBLE NOT CRITICISM OF THE SDA CHURCH AND ELLEN
WHITE. LISTEN TO THEM AT; "FORMER ADVENTIST" WEEK END
CONFERENCE 2008 AUDIO click on;
http://formeradventist.com/weekends/fafweekend2008.html
I WANTED THIS
SITE TO BE EDUCATIONAL AND TRUTHFUL. I WANTED YOU TO LEARN THE TRUTH
FROM "SDA DOCUMENTS" AND THE BIBLE ONLY, SO I QUOTE A LOT OF BIBLE
TEXTS THAT OTHER SO CALLED SUBVERSIVES AND HATERS OF ELLEN
WHITE SITES DON'T, BUT THE SDA CHURCH WON'T DEAL WITH THESE BIBLE
TEXTS EITHER. I HAD READ THE FOLLOWING ACCUSATION;
The harmony between these haters of Ellen G.
White and the Subversives is that both groups do not promote and
apparently do not have any positive interpretation of Scripture that
distinguishes their faith in any way, but their criticisms of the
Adventist movement are identical. Taken from;
http://www.everythingimportant.org/gospel/7faces.htm
WE CAN ALL READ
THE "SDA DOCUMENTS" NOW ON THE INTERNET. BUT, I TOO HAD SEEN THAT
SOME OF THE CRITICS LACKED A TRUE UNDERSTANDING THEMSELVES,
THEREFORE THIS SITE, WHICH ENCOURAGES YOU TO RESPOND WITH YOUR
ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS.
Here are some of the websites
and books that Dr. Jud Lake refers to, in video three, as having
been written by the
mad,
bitter, hateful,
Relentless,
lunatics
that left the church,
YOU DECIDED.
Josiah Litch's
Predictions about Turkey - 1840;
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw52.htm
Ellen White’s hand written letter to Joseph Bates
dated May 13, 1847.
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw55.htm
Joseph Bates, Second
Advent Waymarks,1847, Pages 97-110;
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw19.htm
Gilbert Cranmer's - Personal Experiences with
Ellen White
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/cranmert.htm
Mrs. Lucinda
Burdick -
Visions of Ellen G. Harmon
http://www.ex-sda.com/lucinda.htm
H.C. Blanchard -
The Testimonies of Mrs. E. G. White Compared With the Bible
http://www.ex-sda.com/newpage24.htm
Norwich Tract
1890 "The Claims
of Mrs. Ellen G. White as stated by herself, Considered from
the Standpoint of Scripture.
http://www.ex-sda.com/newpage25.htm
H.E. Carver 1871- book-
Mrs. E. G. White's Claims to
Divine Inspiration Examined
http://www.ex-sda.com/newpage22.htm
Charles Lee
1876 -book- THREE IMPORTANT
QUESTIONS
FOR SDA's TO CONSIDER
http://www.ex-sda.com/newpage23.htm
Miles Grant 1877 -book- An
Examination of Mrs. Ellen White's Visions
http://www.ex-sda.com/miles_grant.htm
D. M. Canright -
(Minster and A state conf.
President)
http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/SDAism-RENOUNCED-by-D-M-Canright.html
http://help_for_sdas.tripod.com/Canright-LordsDay
http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/LifeofEGWHerClaimsRefutedCanright.html
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/Complete
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/The%20Truth
B. F. SNOOK & WM. H. BRINKERHOFF-
(BF Snook was President of the Iowa Conference)
http://www.truthorfables.com/Visons_of_%20EGW_by_Snook_&_Brinkerhoff.htm
Jones, E.B. - Publishing
house mgr. (missionary to India)
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/Why
Jones, A.T. - (1888
Messenger)
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/ATEGW.htm
Waggoner, E.J. - (1888
Messenger)
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/waggoner.htm
To get most of the books
Jones and Waggoner wrote free online go to;
http://www.shepherds-rod.org/1888/
History of Jones and Waggoner in
Oregon;
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-
Adventist Claims against;
http://gospel-herald.com/wieland/glad_tidings_revisions.htm
John H. Kellogg- (founder
of medical work for SDA) World renowned surgeon, inventor of dry
cereal.
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/kelloggfile.htm
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/kellogg.htm
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw67.htm
Present Adventist view of
Kellogg;
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
Albion F. Ballenger- 1909- Cast Out for the
Cross of Christ (was
Conf. President in Ireland)
http://www.nonsda.org/egw/ballenger/castout.htm
Edward S. Ballenger- (Albion brother)
http://www.truthorfables.com/Great_Controversy_Plagiarism.htm
W.W. Fletcher-
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/The%20Atonement
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/The%20Day%20of%20Atonement
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/The%20Difference%20Between
Clara
Endicott Sears, 1924- Days of Delusion – A Strange Bit of History
http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/DaysofDelusion.html
"NEW" DENNIS J.
FISCHER, The “Truth” Re-examined
- February, 2008
A MUST READ
http://www.truthorfables.com/BEYOND%20ADVENTISM.pdf
Common Sense
tells me
these people weren't
DUMMIES.
WHAT THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH HAS MANAGED TO DO, IN
DEFENDING ELLEN WHITE'S INSPIRATION, IS MAKE THE BIBLE UNINSPIRED,
UNRELIABLE, AND UNBELIEVABLE.
IS THAT WHY SO MANY WHO LEAVE, DON'T BELIEVE THE BIBLE ANYMORE AND
WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION, PERIOD?
It may be hard for some of
you to get it, but if none of the "unique
doctrines" of the Seventh Day Adventist church originated
with Ellen White, but were the thoughts of other's, the
shut door, the
bride groom cometh in 7 yrs., the
Investigative Judgment and the
Sabbath.
Common sense
ought to tell you it came from men.
We were taught that we could
prove all our doctrines from the Bible only. If you can't answer
even one of the questions I have posted on this site, without using
Ellen White, then you must realize the SDA church is in trouble.
THEY DON'T
USE THE BIBLE TEXTS I POST IN MY REASONS FOR ASKING THE QUESTIONS.
CHECK IT OUT. GO TO THE INDEX TO ELLEN WHITE'S WRITINGS, SEE IF SHE
USES ANY OF THE TEXTS. WHY NOT?
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE
LONGED TO SEE CHANGE WITHIN THE SDA CHURCH. WHO HATED TO SEE THEIR
BELOVED PASTORS, TEACHERS AND FAMILY MEMBERS KICKED OUT. To get a
partial list go to;
http://www.bible.ca/7-white-inpsired-100-pastors-fired.htm
MOST HATED TO
SEE NEW MEMBERS COME TO CHRIST ONLY TO SEE THEM LEAVE THE CHURCH OUT
THE BACK DOOR. TO LEARN THAT 1,500,000 MEMBERS LEFT IN THE LAST FIVE
YEARS WAS HEART BREAKING. TO HEAR THAT THE PER-CAPITA TITHE HAD
DROPPED BY 75% WAS UNBELIEVABLE. TO LEARN THE CHURCH WAS TAKEN OVER
SILENTLY BY A CORRUPT, TOP HEAVY,
click on;
HIERARCHICAL SYSTEM,
WHICH THIS WAS NEVER VOTED ON BY THE MEMBERSHIP, IT WAS HARD FOR ME
TO UNDERSTAND. THE LINKS BELOW REVEAL THE PROBLEM;
http://www.truthorfables.com/SDA_Tithe_Down_75.htm
http://www.truthorfables.com/david_dennis.htm
http://www.truthorfables.com/AHS_Medicare_Fraud.htm
http://www.truthorfables.com/SDA_corruption_in_trinidad.htm
http://www.truthorfables.com/Union_Rights.htm
http://www.truthorfables.com/Gen_Conf_Highest_Aut.htm
http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Articles/SDAGrowthSlows/tabid/495/Default.aspx
Seventh-day
Adventists: Where have your donations gone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Tnu0M7C4xs
The church leaders
would have you believe the members who leave remain believers in the
SDA message. They don't realize it's their own historic Adventism's,
once hidden, documentations that are now opened for the world to
read on the internet that are the problem. To read their own report
on this go to;
http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/other_documents/conserving-gains.html?
IF THE
QUESTIONS ON THIS WEBSITE ARE NOT ANSWERED BIBLICALLY, WITHOUT THE
USE OF ELLEN WHITE, THERE WILL NEVER BE AN END TO THE OUT-FLOW OF
MEMBERS, WHO WANT
THE TRUTH, FULL
TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
THAT ONLY COMES FROM THE BIBLE.
YOU CAN BE THANKFUL
FOR THOSE, WHO GOD GAVE
COMMON SENSE,
FOR NOT GIVING UP ON THEIR ADVENTIST LOVED ONES. WHO WROTE BOOKS AND
CREATED WEBSITES, SO YOU COULD READ THE LONG HIDDEN
DOCUMENTS. THEY HAVE BROUGHT THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH TO A
MORE PROGRESSIVE EVANGELICAL UNDERSTANDING. MOST OF THESE WEBSITE
CREATORS HAVE BEEN DEMONIZED, BEEN KICKED OUT OF THE CHURCH AND
HATED BY THEIR PAST FRIENDS. IT'S THEY WHO FACE THE
mad,
bitter, hateful,
lunatics!
BELIEVE ME
IT IS
RELENTLESS!
YOU CAN THANK GOD, BECAUSE GOD WILL NOT GIVE UP ON YOU EITHER.
There
are still questions that need to be answered.
This is a plea from the
heart,
take it serious!
_____________________________________________________________________
DO NOT READ THIS WEBSITE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO STUDY IT IN-DEPTH.
THERE IS A COLLEGE EDUCATION WORTH OF MATERIAL ON IT. YOU WON'T GET
MOST OF THIS MATERIAL IN ANY ADVENTIST COLLEGE. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN
IS BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUES. YOU'LL LEARN WHAT OTHER SCHOLARS' THINK
OF YOUR BELIEFS. IF THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST LEADERSHIP WILL ANSWER
THESE QUESTIONS YOU'LL GET THEIR DEFENSE OF THEIR FAITH. IF THEY
WON'T YOU NEED TO DEFEND IT YOURSELF. BUT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND
BOTH SIDES IN ORDER TO DO THAT. THAT'S WHAT THIS SITE IS ALL
ABOUT. IT WILL TAKE YOU TWO HOURS JUST TO READ MY QUESTIONS AND MY
REASON FOR ASKING. DO THAT FIRST, THEN FOLLOW THE LINKS, THAT WILL
TAKE YOU FOREVER, I'VE BEEN STUDYING IT FOR 26 YEARS AND GOD IS NOT
THROUGH WITH ME YET. GOD BLESS YOU FOREVER.
I WANT THE
LEADERSHIP TO REALIZE THAT ONE DAY THEY WILL STAND BEFORE, THE KING
OF KINGS, TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS.
1.
WHY DID YOU TAKE AWAY THE MINISTERIAL LICENSE OF PASTORS WHO
COULDN'T BELIEVE IN THE HISTORIC VIEW OF ADVENTISM ANYMORE, WHILE
NOW LETTING THEM REMAIN?
2.
WHY DID YOU TAKE AWAY THEIR MEANS OF LIVELIHOOD, HONOR, RESPECT, AND
THEIR PENSION. WHY DID YOU DEMONIZE THEM SO?
3.
WHY DID YOUR COLLEGES FAIL STUDENTS WHO DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTIONS
YOU TAUGHT THEM ABOUT THE 2300 DAY CHART CORRECTLY. MANY GAVE UP
THEIR THEOLOGY DEGREES.
4.
WHY DID YOU HIDE SO MANY DOCUMENTS FROM YOUR MEMBERS?
WHAT YOU'LL
LEARN ON THIS WEBSITE IS JUST HOW CLOSE WE ARE TO, THE TRIAL OF ALL
TRIALS, "THE COMING OF THE LORD" TO DEFEND YOUR FOOLISH,
UNSCRIPTURAL, "UNIQUE DOCTRINES" .
I WOULD WORRY MOST ABOUT STANDING BEFORE GOD, THE JUDGE OF HEAVEN
AND EARTH, AND TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU CHANGED THE BIBLE TO
SUPPORT YOUR PROPHET.
WHY YOU HAD TO TEACH ELLEN WHITES VIEW THAT GOD REALLY DIDN'T MEAN
WHAT HE PROMISED TO THE JEWS IT WAS ALL FOR THE ADVENTIST INSTEAD.
WE AS MEMBERS WERE TAUGHT WE WOULD
HAVE TO STAND BEFORE JUDGE AND JURY TO DEFEND OUR "UNIQUE
DOCTRINES". THE QUESTIONS, I ASK ON THIS WEBSITE, ARE THE
SAME QUESTIONS YOU'LL BE ASKED BY THE PROSECUTING ATTORNEY. YOU WILL
THEN BE ASKED TO RESPOND TO THE SAME REASONS I STATE FOR ASKING THE
QUESTIONS. YOU NEED TO FIND AN ANSWER TO THEM NOW BEFORE IT'S TO
LATE. GOD WILL NOT BRING TO YOUR MIND YOUR SDA ANSWERS. YOU'LL NEED
GOOD BIBLE ANSWERS. LEARN THEM NOW.
May I give you my reasons for
asking?
You'll
find my reason below each question.
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Read my reasons before you respond so
you will know where I’m coming from. PLEASE respond to the bible text I have
used. We're told to contend for the faith. It's not a sin to do it.
(Don't make
me the issue. That's not answering the questions)
I'M NOT A BITTER, MAD,
HATEFUL, RELENTLESS
LUNATIC.
THERE ARE PEOPLE
WHO REALLY CARE ABOUT THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS AND WANT TO SEE THEM IN
HEAVEN.
If you want I will add
your answer below my reasons. I will never add anything without your consent.
Please, add your name and position in the SDA church. If you are not speaking
for the SDA church as a whole and someone who can speak for the SDA church
answers the question, your response will be replaced. I think you'll understand
why.
I MAY BE WRONG ABOUT ALL
OF THIS.
But you must prove it from the bible first over Ellen White. Remember we
have always been told that we could prove all our doctrine from the Bible. Give
it a try.
COME LET US REASON
TOGETHER. IF I'M RIGHT ABOUT JUST ONE OF MY REASONS, FOR ASKING THE
QUESTIONS, THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH CAN NO LONGER CLAIM "THE
TRUTH FULL TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH" AND THAT'S THE TEST. THE
NEED TO CORRECT THE ERRORS TO SUPPORT THE CLAIM OF "WE HAVE THE TRUTH"
OVER ALL OTHER CHURCHES IS A MUST, OR WE NEED TO STOP CLAIMING IT.
Yours truly, Ronald R.
Parmele

IF YOU ARE NOT
FULLY GROUNDED IN THE ADVENTIST FAITH DON'T GO TO
Q@A
WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM YOUR PASTOR!
THE QUESTIONS I ASK AND THE REASONS FOR ASKING THEM ARE ANSWERED WITHOUT
THE AID OF ELLEN WHITE. THE BIBLE TEXTS I USE ARE NEVER USED BY
ADVENTIST PASTORS IN EXPLAINING THEIR
UNIQUE
DOCTRINES'. IF THEY RESPOND PLEASE SEND ME THEIR RESPONSE, I'LL BE GLAD
TO ADD IT TO THIS SITE. WE ALL NEED THEIR ANSWERS.
For Pastor, Teacher
and Leader, responses so far
click here
(Please try to answer at least one)
GO TO
QUESTIONS
Back to Top of Page
SITE BEGAN JAN.1,2008

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