Ellen White wrote this in “The Review and Herald” of March 25, 1890: “We do not claim that in the doctrines sought out by those who have studied the word of truth, there may not be some error, for no man that lives is infallible … Our brethren should be willing to investigate in a candid way every point of controversy”. Your Pastors, Teachers and Leaders, response so far click here In compliance with the Seventh Day Adventist attorney; click here
LET'S PRAY BEFORE WE START THIS STUDY, PLEASE CLICK; http://home.comcast.net/~singingman7/Water.htm
__________________________________________________________________________________
GO TO QUESTIONS - MY SDA PIONEERS - MY STORY - POWER-POINT - WORLD NEWS - RESPOND BY EMAIL - ON SITE VIDEOS
________________________ "NEW" MY WIFE LINDA'S, FATHERS ART WORK ________________________
My name is Ronald Robert Parmele. I’m 70 years old. I am not a Preacher, Teacher or Prophet. I’m just an, imperfect, old warn out guy who loves the Adventist people. I was raised a fourth Generation Seventh Day Adventist, on both sides of my family. I only went to Adventist schools. I managed Academy Industries for nearly ten years. I was baptized into the truth, was schooled in the truth, married in the truth, schooled my four children in the truth. I planned to die in the truth, so help me God. I was kicked out of the truth at the Hillsboro, Oregon, Seventh Day Adventist church in 1982, because they no longer believed I was in the truth.
I loved Ellen White. I had been at her home in Battle Creek.
I was in the upstairs bedroom where I was told, by the guide that her angel had stood, right there by that table, and guided her hand as she wrote The Great Controversy because she only had a 3rd grade education.
I have been at Ellen White's home near Pacific Union College (where my daughter was going to college to become a bible-worker). I saw where they rolled Ellen White out on the balcony in her wheel chair so she could get the sunshine before she died.
I went to the graveyard in Battle Creek to see where the White family had been buried. To me it was holy ground. I gloried in it all.
We were the Remnant Church, God's Chosen People. All other churches were Babylon. I was so proud. We had the Seal of God (Sabbath) and the Testimonies of Jesus (Ellen White). We had the "Truth".
I had seen the homestead of my great grandfather near Battle Creek. I saw Cedar Lake Academy where my mothers father had gone to school. I even saw the two story outhouse.
WILLIS HOMESTEAD 1800'S
FIRST CEDAR LAKE ACADEMY BUILDING AND THE TWO STORY OUTHOUSE. IT WAS FOR TWO STORY APARTMENTS
The old Battle Creek Sanitarium
A Sword of Fire Hung over Battle Creek; http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw71.htm
SDA ACTIONS AGAINST KELLOGG; http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6434097767490329654&q=&h
It takes about 5 minutes into the video to get to the Kellogg story. It's worth the wait! After listening to all the EGW statements please name the specific errors, that she claims Kellogg made in writing the book, and which changes he had to correct. The story Kellogg uses about the boot to illustrate the tree as prove that God made the tree with seeds to grow other trees seems a good one to me.
Interview between Elder G. W. Amadon, Elder A. C. Bourdeau, and Dr. John Harvey Kellogg; http://www.ex-sda.com/john.htm
Now a government building of some kind.
I had taken a tour of the Kellogg Cereal factory, I went to the Dime Tabernacle church and Camp-meeting at Lansing Michgan where I met the remaining members of my Adventist grandfather's Willis family (my mothers father). I was truly blessed to have had such a great heritage. I was at peace. If only I had not started to study!
I know many of you are going to think I'm bitter, over my past relationship, with the church. I'm not! I had the best parents in the world. I loved everyone of my teachers, I loved my Academy years. My classmates are the dearest friends I have. I love my heritage. I would not have taken the time to write about it on this site if I was not proud of it. I know that they all believed we were in the only true church. But, I had to know for sure. I was afraid at first. I had heard and read all the condemnation that Ellen White and the church leaders heaped on all those that dared to question them or Ellen White. I had studied religion all of my life, it left me high and dry. I wasn't happy, I wasn't sure I'd be saved. If Adventism wasn't right nothing else was.
You may want to read what an ex-SDA chaplain serving on active duty with the United States military had to say about his love for the people within the church. When I read his story I got tears in my eyes. His heart is not unlike mine; http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/testimonydd.htm
It took 28 years to gain the nerve to publish this material. I'm an old man now and time is running out, I don't have another 28 years. You need to know Christ is coming soon. You need to know that God loves you, that His promises are sure.
I didn't know how to study any other way than to start with the writings of Ellen White and the church so I bought nearly all her books, the small thick Spiritual Gifts books, Early Writings, all nine of her Testimonies', a full set of the conflict series, a lot of the compilations of her books and a full set of the Commentaries. I had all three of her Great Controversy books. It began to bother me that she had changed them. Why would she need to if her angel was by her side guiding her hand as she wrote? I found an old copy of D.M.Canrights book you can get it online free here;
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/canright/egw16.htm
I now knew which historical documents, to ask the White Estates for. After I told them I was willing to take them to court to get them, they started sending me a few. One day I got a call from a Mr. Olson, (not the Mr. Olson of the White Estates). This guy was not an Adventist. He told me, as a young man, Ballenger (a former SDA pastor who had questioned the Investigative Judgment) and he were good friends. Ballenger's wife had given him Ballenger's files after he died. He said, the White Estates had wanted to buy them for years, but he would never sell them to the White Estates because they would destroy them. He was 81 years old, at the time he called me. Someone from the White Estates had to have told him I was looking for old documents and that I may want to buy them. I asked if someone from White Estates had told him, he said yes but wouldn't tell me who it was.
He sold me the Ballenger files. They contained a lot of old letters and the earliest Ellen White booklets etc. I read them all night long for a week. You can get them all, word for word, on the internet now for free at;
It would be a mistake for you to make these sites, or the people who have put them up the problem. It's the documentation that they present that needs to be questioned and answered by the church. That's the purpose of this site. You, as members, need to understand what to ask of your leaders. What makes this site different is the fact that I have written my reasons for asking the questions. You need your own reasons.
After reading all the documentation and all the early booklets she wrote, I now knew the changes they made in her writings and all the failed prophecies she had made. I also understood why the church was hiding them.
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/secrets2.htm
After listening to a tape of an Adventist forum meeting, (about EGW's copying) given by Walter Rea at San Diego, which a church member had given me. I went to see Walter Rae, at Walla Walla College one weekend. At the last minute the college was told not to let him speak, so a public school was rented and all the students and most of the faculty went over there. I later was able to buy a set of nine cassette tapes of the meeting he had with the General Conf. Committee that met with him to see his evidence that Ellen White copied, they already knew she did, but not to the extent Walter had found. Why had they not told us?
They voted that Walter Rae be given a leave of absence from his church to study the "Desire of Ages" and to put his work on the "Great Controversy" into a more professional form and someone be hired to help him. They voted to no longer hide it under the carpet but make it known to the members. That did not happen. Walter was fired.
The man they hired to study the "Desire Of Ages" was Fred Veltman, they thought they could control him so the outcome would show that Ellen White didn't copy that book. You need to decide for yourself by reading the report. Go to;
http://www.truthorfables.com/Desire_of_Ages_Veltman.htm
So what happen to Walter Rae?
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/rea/letter.htm
Did he put his study in a more professional form?
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw17.htm
"The Truth About The White Lie" by Ellen G. White Estate First published August 1982. Revised January 1999.
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/whitelie.html
Pastors can't agree; Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D. Retired Professor of Theology, Andrews University;
http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/eti_88.html
We had been taught that all of her prophecies had come true, or soon would, that she had written all of her books as her angel guided her hand. That her helpers only corrected her spelling and punctuation. I needed answers.
About this time the Dr. Davenport 29 million dollar bankruptcy against the church was going on. My accountant worked for the firm that audited the North Pacific Union's books each year. He showed me what was going on from the 1980 Financial statement. They had been hiding click on; "THE DAVENPORT LOANS" as an asset in the "Agency and Demand Fund". Also the Oregon Conference Attorney was a member of the Gaston church and a friend of mine. He told me that 1/2 million dollars from the "Tithe Reserve Fund" had been used in building the new Oregon Conference office building. They had loaned Davenport the building fund with the promise he would pay it back when they needed it. He went bankrupt before he paid it back so they had to use the tithe reserve fund to pay the bills and keep building. They simply exchanged the Tithe fund for a non-tithe fund and gave it to Davenport claiming no tithe funds were used. The money had not been paid back at the time they were saying no tithe funds had been used. I had gotten a list of all the people who had invested in Dr. Davenport and the huge percentages they had been repaid for their personal investments. It read like a Who's Who in Adventist Leadership clear up to the General Conference President.
You can read the manuscript of a book, written by Walter Rea about it. The book was never published as part of a deal made with Walter Rae to get his retirement - I believe. Walter sent me a copy of the manuscript, which was later lost in the mail after 9/11. The book was called; "Pirates of Privilege" you can read a poorly scanned copy of it now on the internet for free at:
http://www.bible.ca/7-pirates-of-privilege.htm
My faith in God's Chosen People was fast passing. I needed answers.
Then Desmond Ford was fired for not believing in the Investigative Judgment.
A must see video of Desmond Ford in 2008;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW9yPT3MGXY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacier_View_controversy
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw53.htm
http://members.aol.com/LarryPahl/part7.htm
Witness to Glacier View interview;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HwH07fz1CY
To understand what was going on at the time listen to the videos of Walter Rae and Desmond Ford being interviewed on the John Ankerberg Show at;
http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Video/tabid/502/Default.aspx
WHAT DID DESMOND FORD SAY AT HIS GLACIER VIEW TRIAL ;
http://en.allexperts.com:80/q/Seventh-Day-Adventists-2318/Dr-Ford-Glacier-View.htm
I had watched this at the time. I needed answers.
All we were getting from, The Leadership, was God told Ellen White which stuff to copy and no tithe funds were taken and we needed to pay a double tithe for a few years.
To read an OUTSIDERS view of what was going on;
Monday, Aug. 02, 1982
The Church of Liberal Borrowings
By Richard N. Ostling
Plagiarism and fraud charges rock the
Seventh-day Adventists
The 3.8 million-member Seventh-day Adventist Church is normally the most doctrinally placid and prosperous of faiths. Lately, however, it has fallen into unaccustomed uproar. For starters, church members are suing Adventist officials in an Oregon court for fraud and breach of fiduciary trust, stemming from the 1981 bankruptcy of fellow Adventist Donald Davenport, a Los Angeles developer. The suit charges that without adequately checking Davenport out, Adventist clergy blithely invested church trust funds with him and urged church members to make their own investments. As his empire collapsed, Davenport supposedly used newly raised moneys to cover payments due to previous investors. In the end, church agencies dropped a cool $21 million, and individual Adventists may be out as much as $20 million in the debacle. On top of this, the church has been hit by a second scandal: the charge that the theological writings of its most important figure, which rank second only to the Bible, may have been plagiarized from other authors.
Of the two scandals, the second could prove the costlier, as it calls into question the integrity of the church's teachings. Prophet Ellen G. White (1827-1915) rallied the group that became known as the Adventists following the "Great Disappointment" of Oct. 22, 1844, the date when thousands of Protestants expected the Second Coming (or Advent) of Jesus Christ to occur. When it did not, White, a "messenger" of God and interpreter of the Bible, said she received a vision explaining that on Oct. 22 Christ had entered a new "sanctuary" in heaven to begin "the investigative judgment" of the lives and works of believers. Then White reported a second vision that confirmed the necessity of Saturday worship (hence the name Seventh-day Adventists). Followers came to regard White's numerous visions and books as divinely inspired interpretations of the Bible, as well as a guide to proper views on everything from vegetarianism (pro) to Darwinism (con).
Now a growing number of Adventists are having their doubts about White's teachings. In the late 1970s, Desmond Ford, a prominent Australian theologian who was teaching at the church-run Pacific Union College in California, made the case that White's "sanctuary" explication of 1844 no longer stood up in the light of the Bible, and that "the investigative judgment" undercut the whole basis of Protestantism: belief in salvation by God's grace apart from good works. This prompted the founding of a dissident bimonthly, Evangelica, based in Napa, Calif. Before long, the church forced the resignation or expulsion, by one count, of 120 Adventist clergy and teachers. Ford was defrocked in 1980.
Ford's challenge was mild, however, compared with the bombshell dropped by Walter T. Rea of Patterson, Calif. A veteran pastor, Rea, in the course of Ph.D. research, stumbled across some long-buried writings by forgotten divines that matched huge swatches of Prophet White's books. Accusations of this general nature had arisen before but had been argued away by Adventist officials. Rea was the first to document the vast scale of such borrowing (from 75 assorted books on history, doctrine and the Bible). Last April, Rea issued his full findings in a bitter book titled The White Lie. In it he concludes that the "plagiarism" undermines belief not only in the prophet's divine inspiration but also in her basic honesty. One Adventist, Delbert Hodder, a pediatrician and teacher at the University of Connecticut, has offered an altogether different explanation. When White was nine years old she was hit in the head by a rock and seriously injured. Hodder speculates that her visions were the result of "partial-complex seizure," a malady related to epilepsy.
Prodded by Rea, the church has been forced to give ground. Last month, Ministry, its magazine for clergy, conceded that White's use of "outside sources" was "much more extensive" than Adventists have realized. Admitted Ministry: "Sometimes she used material nearly word for word without giving credit." Most shocking of all, "She utilized the words of prior authors in describing words she heard spoken while in vision. In a few instances, she uses the writings of a 19th century source in quoting the words of Christ or of an angelic guide."
Despite these admissions, Church President Neal Wilson holds to the position that a prophet's thoughts can be divinely inspired even though they are not original. And loyal Adventists have taken to defending White's plagiarism as acceptable practice, arguing that parts of the Bible too were compiled from pre-existing sources. The church's last General Conference, in 1980, confirmed White as a latter-day prophet whose "writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth."
A full report on the church's investigation of White's sources is due next year. Meanwhile, in the second edition of his book Rea plans to charge that White's last and most important works were actually fabricated by Adventist pioneers when she was senile. Whatever the outcome, Georgetown University Ethicist Roy Branson, editor of Spectrum, an independent journal for church liberals, says flatly that Adventists will no longer be able to appeal to White as "the final authority on a whole range of issues, including biblical and theological interpretation and life-style." If so, the Seventh-day Adventists would seem to have lost a resource more precious than the millions that went down the drain. —By Richard N. Ostling. Reported by Jim Castelli/Washington and Dick Thompson/San Francisco
-
Find this article at:
-
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,925600,00.html
When no one would answer my questions, I decided to put it all out of my mind and quietly go my way. I stopped going to the Hillsboro SDA church, and started going to a non-denominational church with my wife Linda. I couldn't believe the difference. They studied the Bible only.
When I was asked by the Hillsboro SDA pastor, Elder Whitehead, if I wanted to have my name removed from the books, I said, "why do you ask?" He said; they were cleaning up their membership books, and my name had come up. He said; that the church board meeting was in a week. I asked; if I had the right to be there and speak for myself? He seemed surprised I would want to be. He said, "yes, I guess you do."
So I was there with all my questions and documentation. The Pastor said, the Church handbook said, they had to let me speak for myself, I was there to defend myself. He invited me up front. I asked them my questions and showed them my documentation. They had never heard of the things or read the documentation I was reading to them before. They were shocked to say the least. They asked me questions from 7:30 until midnight. I kept showing them all the documentation to support my claims.
When Pastor Whitehead asked. If I believed Ellen G. White was as inspired as any other Bible writer. I said, "Of course not; after showing you all this documentation do you?" The pastor had been wanting to take a vote for a couple hours, as it was getting really late. Everyone asked him to answer my questions. He said, he wished he could, as he knew many people had the same questions I had, but he didn't have the answers. Oh! how he wished he hadn't called me. I'm sure that was a board meeting he'll never forget. If you have come to the same beliefs as I have, never give up with out a fight, it's not for you, but for all the members that are asleep to the facts and documentation. They simply have never seen or heard it before. It's your responsibility to show them.
As it turns out many of the leaders of the church didn't believe Ellen White was inspired. after she died they met in 1919 to discuss the matter. Read about it by clicking below.
http://www.bible.ca/7-1919-sda-conference.htm
Prescott Letter to W.C. White; http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/prescot2.htm
I still needed answers.
I said, "To say Ellen White was the “Messenger of the Lord” meant she was speaking for God Almighty. I couldn’t see that as being any different than the Pope claiming to speak for God." Maybe you can? I could not! To me it was blasphemy! I had many Godly teachers. I was taught in SDA schools not to lie. I simply had studied my way out of Adventism. I still haven't gotten any answers.
The pastor asked me if I believed I had to be a member of the Seventh Day Adventist church in order to be saved. I said, "No". He said, "You all heard him, so lets take a vote". They didn't want to if I still wanted to be a member. I said, "Look, thanks for letting me talk. If any of you had been able to answer my questions, I would still want to be a member. They voted to take my name off the books. I said thanks, now I know God wants me to move on with my life. Good-by and God bless you."
My friends and classmates talked to me for another hour in the parking lot. It was hard to say good-bye. I was forty three years old, yet I cried all the way home. I have tears in my eyes just writing about it now twenty six years later. It's not because I feel sorry for myself. I'm sorry no one had the answers. I truly love my Adventist family, classmates and friends. I want so much to see them in heaven.
My whole family was kicked out that night. None of them were there, questioned about their desires, or contacted personally.
I realized I would never get any answers from the church, so the search for answers had to be my doing; no one else could do it for me. I don't know why it took me so long to realize that was, and is, the only answer for everyone. No one can do it for you.
That's what this site is all about, but it's my journey not yours. It's my hope that my journey will be of some help to you, but you must take the journey on your own. God will guide you into all "Truth". Be willing to follow Him where ever that may be. You must put away all your preconceived "ideas"; your bias. Put aside your Ellen White books for a while and study your Bible only. It may take some getting use to. But the only real Truth is in His word.
The coming of Christ is near!
The spirit of God is begging you to get ready. You must study your bible like never before. Before you start reading this web site, please turn off your television, get your Bible out and follow along. It will take your full attention! Read every verse I quote, and read the whole chapter before and after. You must get a clear understanding. Never take my word for it or anyone else‘s. If I’m wrong about all of this, I will die a lost man. I know that. What If you are wrong?
You must decide, you must think for yourself. The minister can’t do it for you. 3abn or the Hope channel can’t think for you. You and you alone must decide. Your destiny is on the line. Is the God you serve real or not? Can your God foretell the future? If He can’t He’s not God! Can Ellen G. White foretell the future? If not she is a false prophet and is not to be feared or believed. It’s a test between her and God Almighty. You must make the choice. Whom will you serve?
It’s the least of my worries what people will think of me. But, God will hold you accountable for whom you worship. I’m no writer! I’m not the smartest guy in the world either, but I can’t sit by and not warn you of what’s ahead. I love the Lord God Almighty with all my heart and soul. I stopped being a Seventh day Adventist, and without knowing it, I became a Seven day Christian. It’s kind of like an Amway salesmen, who can’t stop talking about their products.
The Lord is always on my mind. I can’t stop talking about His prophesies and, dear friends of mine, God is about to fulfill every last one of them. If you really believed that some one knew the future and the future meant life or death to your friends, wouldn’t you tell them? It’s all in His Word. It’s coming like a thief in the night! Please wake up! Please, let me do my best to prove it to you. We are to test the Prophets to see if they are of God. You can’t go wrong by obeying Gods Word. The world is racing headlong into the greatest time of trouble mankind has ever faced. I’m not the one saying it. It’s in your Bible. I have listed some of the prophesies for you, in the hope that you will see that God is real. He alone knows the future.
He means what He says, and says what He means!
WE CAN’T CHANGE IT!
More than anything else, you who have never been outside the bounds of the Adventist faith, need to know what other churches think of your beliefs. I hope this website will inform you. I’ve written this study in the form of questions. I have also stated my reason for asking those questions. They are my reasons as I see it. I don’t want you to take my reasons as the final word on the subject. You must be able to give an answer to these questions on your own. There are many texts in the bible, which I have not quoted, on the subject. You must hunt for them to form your own answers. All I would ask is that you use the bible as your main source for truth. Read all the history, concordances, dictionaries and religious books you want but only if they agree with the bible. We were taught that Ellen G. White was as inspired as any other bible writer. She claimed to be, the lesser light, helping us to understand the Greater light the bible. I now look at her writings as a flashlight looking for the sun. Go directly to the Greater Light.
From my youth I have been asking questions. I remember asking dad where I came from once and he told me to go ask mom. I did and she said I came from her belly. I asked her how I got in there. I once asked dad why a black calf had a white face. Dad told me it was because its mother was a Hereford and its daddy was an Angus bull. I once asked if a black man and white woman had a baby would the baby have a white face. Dad told me I asked too many questions. Dad would get tired of me asking questions he couldn’t answer and would say; “IT’S SO - BECAUSE I SAID IT'S SO.” I asked, "But dad, why so?"
I started asking my School Teachers, Sabbath School Teachers and Pastors questions about our church. They would say; "IT’S SO BECAUSE ELLEN WHITE SAID, IT’S SO." I’m sorry that not good enough anymore. So I asked the Biblical Research Inst., and the President of the General Conference of Seventh Day Adventist himself. They won’t even take the time to read my questions let alone answer them.
Most respond by wanting me to buy a book that Ellen White or someone else wrote on the subject. I’ve already read most of them. That was my problem they were only trying to make the bible fit what Ellen White had said. That's why the Biblical Research committee set up "The Daniel Committee" to try and make the Investigative Judgment biblical. Raymond Cottrell was the leader, I would think you would want to read his last sermon, before his death.
click here http://www.jesusinstituteforum.org/AssetOrLiability.html
My closest friends, who have read my questions and my reasons for asking them, respond as follows;
1. Ron, you always took things too seriously, I never believed that stuff. I do believe Adventist are the closest to the Truth though. I believe the Sabbath. I’ll always be SDA.
2. I can’t answer your questions, I’ve never read Josephus or The Coming Prince etc. and I don’t have the time. Anyway, if it has nothing to do with our salvation, why worry about it? I do believe we’re right about the Sabbath.
3. The church doesn’t kick people out for not believing EGW anymore. They have made many changes. You need to come back, or you will be lost.
4. Your Adventist heritage should mean more to you. Why be so critical?
5. You need help with spelling and punctuation, other than that every Adventist needs to read your booklet, it’s right on. Great job! From an x-sda pastor, his website is;
That’s about what I expected. The one thing most of you, as members, need to worry about most is the fact that none of your leaders will even try to answer any of the questions. They simply don’t respond. The questions won’t go away; they are at the base of all the “unique” teachings of Adventism. They must be answered. They are the pillars of the SDA faith. They need not be, indeed they must not be, for they are not biblical in anyway. They affect our view of the future. Worse, they are contrary to the gospel.
The fact that we have claimed Ellen White to be the “End Time Prophet” has made it impossible to change. Yet she said, before her death,
“There are many things we must learn
and many things we must unlearn.”
The worst thing that happened to the church has been the internet. Here’s your chance to make it work for the SDA church.
I still want answers, if you can give them to me. Please do so, I‘ll put them on this website. I’ll put your answers right below my answers. I beg you to make it known to the members of the Adventist church. They desperately need answers. You are not doing it for me, but for them. Twenty years ago I asked the White Estates to please send me a list of the prophesies, our end time prophet, Ellen White had made that came true. A few years ago, they came out with “Messenger of the Lord”. Dwight Nelson sent me one for Christmas. Thanks again Dwight. In it they list 82 visions she had, out of over 2000 she claimed to have had. 82 out of 2000 isn’t very good odds. Out of the 82, 13 have been already proven false. If the questions I ask and my reasons for asking can not be answered, chances are pretty good that; NONE OF THE REST OF HER PROPHECIES WILL COME TRUE EITHER.
Born to believe it all came from God
"SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTISM"
While a small boy I remember sitting on the front row of a movie theater that the church had rented to hold evangelistic meetings in. (They didn’t want anyone to know it was SDA.)
To understand go to; Truthful Evangelism http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/column/2008/08/22/truthful_evangelism
Elder Gladden was the preacher. I liked his cute little daughter Sharon. We sat on the front row together and listened to her father. We may have been in the third grade at the time. I know my folks never missed a meeting. I liked that!
I’ll never forget the image of Daniel 2 with the head of gold, the breast and arms of silver, thighs of brass and legs of iron. Its feet and ten toes were of iron mixed with clay. The head of gold was Babylon. The breast and arms of silver was Medo-Persia. The thighs of brass were Greece, and the legs of iron were Rome. The ten toes were the ten nations Rome was divided into after its fall. He told us the two legs represented pagan and papal Rome.
A few years ago, I began thinking about the two legs, pagan and papal Rome. They may have merged, but they didn’t split. Maybe it was western Rome and eastern Rome that split into. One Pope ruled in Rome and one ruled in Constantinople. The Eastern leg out lasted the Western leg by nearly 700 years. Those nations today are all Muslim. Could they be the ten nations that are mentioned in Eze. 38 and 39?
All of these kingdoms will still be around when Christ comes the second time. All have come against Israel in the past and will again in the last days. All will be destroyed at Christ coming. Today they are Iraq, (Babylon) Iran, (Persia) Western Rome, (Catholic Italy) and (The old Roman empires of the eastern leg), Greece/Turkey/Egypt/Assyrian and all the rest of the Muslim nations.
Daniel 2:44,45.
44. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
They are the seven mountains of Revelation 17:7-14.
7. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
NOTICE; 1. Egypt, 2. Assyrian, 3. Babylon, 4. Persia, 5. Greece, had fallen by John's time. Rome is during John's vision and is later divided into two legs 6. Western Rome Catholic's, 7. Eastern Greek Orthodox, overtaken by the Muslims that were defeated in 1099 AD (deadly wound) 8. Today's Muslim world (deadly wound being healed).
11. And the beast that was, (Eastern Rome Muslims from 636-1099) and is not, even he is the eighth, (Today's Muslims) and is of the seventh, and goeth into perdition.
NOTE: The beast that was Greek Orthodox Turkey was defeated by Islam, but becomes the 8th kingdom of the Muslims in the end times when they become the ten kings of Eze. 38,39.
12. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. (At the Gog and Magog battle).
TURKEY WAS THE LAST HOLDOUT IN THE TEN NATIONS THAT COME AGAINST ISRAEL. THAT NOW HAS ENDED; http://www.debka.com/article_print.php?aid=1371
WATCH THE FOLLOWING VIDEO;
http://www.littlehornarchive.com/landscape.html
13. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. (Anti-christ)
14. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
" NEW " JUST RELEASED "God's War On Terror" by Walid Shoebat
http://www.shoebat.com/book_gods_war_on_terror.php?PHPSESSID=ad7cb2ccc2dc8a77945e12bea93ed02c
Mini Trailor; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fd1Vucc0TE
AS WALID SHOEBAT SAYS, "ALL THE NATIONS, THAT ARE MENTIONED BY NAME IN THE BIBLE, THAT ARE CAST INTO THE PIT IN THE END TIMES ARE MUSLIN TODAY". TO WATCH GO TO GOOGLE VIDEO. ADD WALID SHOEBAT A1-7, TO THE SEARCH LINE. WATCH ALL PARTS, THEN B1-7 AND C1-8
Listen to Brigitte Gabriel at the following;
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Events/ev092706a.cfm click- View Event
"NEW" OBSESSION THE MOVIE A must see!
___________________________________________________________________________________
ELLEN WHITES "END TIMES" VISIONS
I HAVE YET TO READ, OR HAVE ANYONE SHOW ME, A TRULY SUPER-NATURAL WITHOUT DOUBT PROPHECY, THAT ELLEN WHITE MADE THAT CAME TRUE. IF YOU CAN PLEASE SEND IT TO ME.
You may read SDA replies so far by left clicking on the underlined below.
SDA Reply; Doctor Rick Cabero from the Alaska Conference" I answered you not as SDA Church or an Alaska Conference representative. I answered you representing myself.
Two good SDA websites in support of Ellen White visions; http://www.seventh-day.org/testsofproph.htm and http://www.ellenwhitedefend.com/test_of_prophet.htm
My answer to the above websites is; http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw35.htm You be the judge.
Think of the impact it would have made on all the people at that meeting if Elder Gladden could have read, prophecy after prophecy, from the “End Time Prophet”, Ellen White. (The meeting took place about 1950) WW2 had just ended. So I think I have good reason to ask, why didn't she have anything to say about WWI and WWII? Why did German Adventist support Hitler; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVBptfAxGOs&feature=related
WORLD WAR ONE WORLD WAR TWO
click on SDA answers below;
SDA Answers: My name is Bob Pickle, and I reside near Halstad, MN.
Wouldn’t an end time prophet have foretold about six million Jews being killed?
Why wouldn’t she have mentioned the Atom Bomb?
What if she had foretold about tanks and ships?
What if she had foretold about airplanes?
Why didn’t she foretell about Missiles, Rockets and men going to the moon?
Click; SDA ANSWER;
Just watch this 60 minute video if you want proof God made the Universe
http://truthnet.org/forum/index.php?topic=171.msg809#msg809
Radar, Radio, TV, Computers,
What if she had said, Israel will be a nation again instead of saying we replace the Jews and “Jerusalem would never be built up again” EW. Pg. 75.
Photo of Jerusalem taken in 1920
2005
Video about the END TIME PROPHECY about Israel. Click below;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmF_WFX1YWw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNCZim_OYaU&feature=related
Click; What Ellen White wrote;
If Ellen White had foretold about any of these things, think of the millions who would have accepted her as a true prophet. Common sense should tell you she was not an "End Time Prophet"
What we got instead was the 2300 days and Investigative Judgment. I had to draw the whole 2300 days, chart of Daniel 8:14, while in Church Doctrines class at Laurelwood Academy. I was good at art and got an “A” on the chart. Now, I think back on it and realize, I didn’t have a clue, as to why it was, as I had drawn it. If I had drawn it any other way, I would have gotten an “F”. I had drawn it as I was told. I didn’t even begin to think about it for myself. Most of us, even today, don’t read the whole text. Why not? Well! You say, the text is upon the screen, we don’t have the time to read the whole text. Right you are! There’s a reason for that today. In years past, it wasn’t so clear; many SDA preachers thought they were giving us the truth. Not anymore. Most Adventist scholars, teachers, and preachers today know full well they are not telling you the truth. To prove it ask them to answer these questions.
Laurelwood Academy, Mr. Holmes holding chart
Famous 1844 chart
We need to take a closer look at this chart again later. Okay?
Now after all of these years I have a lot of questions about this chart, and the whole 1844 belief. In this site are my questions. These questions are designed to make you think about your beliefs. No one has the right to question another persons belief if they can't state their REASON FOR ASKING THE QUESTION.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2005 Ellen White Summit
TODAY'S ADVENTIST CHURCHES
For a Seventh Day Adventist there are now at least three options. You can now be a baptized member and hold any of these beliefs.
A-HISTORIC, B-PROGRESSIVE, C-EVANGELICAL.
CLICK ON THE ABOVE TO LEARN THE DIFFERENCE. WHICH ONE DO YOU CLAIM TO BE?
Allen Thompson's explanation his view of the three;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ2AD09HvWg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6tkn01iJoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKpoaDvlb4
The Historic approach was taught up until the 1980's. Thousands were kicked-out for no longer believing it. If many, great Godly leaders, pastors, teachers and members had been given the Evangelical choice their membership would not have been dropped from the Seventh Day Adventist church. But, they may have stopped studying. I'm so glad God didn't let that happen. You'll never understand why other Christians believe the way they do until you're outside of Adventism. You'll find out where I stand, relating to these three options, toward the end of this study.
I was hoping when the, 2005 Ellen White Summit took place I would hear just what position the church had taken. Listen to the summit at the following links. Watch all 1-8 videos. There are eight hours of talks. TO WATCH THE SUMMIT "LEFT CLICK" ON EACH HOUR BELOW; (wait it will come up. You really need DSL) You can now get this at http://ellenwhitesummit.foxyresearch.com/ if Google doesn't work.
1. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9085323260620531077&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT George Knight
2. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2182775077577403071&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT Craig Newborn
3. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2730658588415094914&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT Jud Lake
4. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-218670502478132319&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT Jud Lake
Some responses; http://newprotestants.com/rejudlake.htm and A MUST READ; Dale Ratzlaff's (who left because he became a PROGRESSIVE EVANGELICAL) wrote an open letter to Dr. Jud Lake's (video 3) condemnation of him. Go to the 12th page of his magazine Proclamation! Click on; http://lifeassuranceministries.org/Proclamation2006_NovDec.pdf
Jud Lakes answer http://ellenwhiteanswers.org/critics/Razlaff
5. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8655009682505291165&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT George Knight
6. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7873458851587026338&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT Jon Paulien
7. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5001191673779117600&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT Jon Paulien
Q@A. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6859867949517899475&q=ELLEN+WHITE+SUMMIT The Group
TO FIND OUT WHAT OTHER ADVENTISTS THOUGHT OF THE SUMMIT GO TO;
http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/5371/4694.html?1159701092
It appears they have gone Progressive, or are heading in that direction. The Historic Adventist are now the fanatics.
When I was baptized in 1952 we had to come up front and sit on the front row while the pastor read a list of questions. We had to state in front of the church that we believed, and would follow, all the doctrines he stated;
1. We would not work from sunset Friday night until sunset Saturday night and keep all the ten commandments perfectly.
2. We believed in the investigative judgment began in 1844. and that Jesus was coming in this generation and I must be purified from all sin and evil before his coming.
3. We had to believe in Ellen White as a true prophet and the only infallible interpreter of the Bible.
4. We had to state that we would support the church with offerings and 1/10 of our income as tithe.
5. As kids in church school we signed a temperance pledge that we would never smoke or drink alcohol, coffee or coke. We had to reaffirm that commitment.
6. We would never go to the theater, (the same movies were okay if they were shown at church socials), play pool (except on a Carom board at home), cards (except Rook) or gamble in anyway (except for marbles).
7. We would never eat unclean meat. (we would never go to heaven alive if we ate meat of any kind and our prayers would never be answered).
8. We would dress as Christians. (The women couldn't wear jeans and had to wear long brown socks. No sleeveless or see through blouses. They could wear jeans only under their dress if they were working. Their dresses had to be below the knees).
9. We would never ware jewelry.
10. We would never marry out of the Truth, or send our children to non-SDA church schools.
11. We wouldn't go to the theater or dance hall. (skating rink was okay and pupil swimming pools were okay)
12. We would never cuss or take the name of the Lord in vain.
And a whole lot more I can't think of anymore. There's 28, very differently worded, questions now.
YOU CAN GET A COPY OF THE 1932, (good until 1980), CHURCH MANUAL AT;
http://maranathamedia.com/start/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1 GO DOWN THE RIGHT SIDE.
VERY CHURCH LEADER, PASTOR AND TEACHER NEEDS TO KNOW ALL SIDES OF AN ISSUE IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM. YOU CAN'T SOLVE ANYTHING, BE IT RELIGIOUS OR SECULAR, WITHOUT ETHIS UNDERSTANDING. THIS SITE IS FOR THAT PURPOSE.
-"NEW"- OH! FOR AN HONEST LOOK AT THE SDA CHURCH AS OTHERS HAVE SEEN THEMSELVES; http://www.lhvm.org/calledtobefree.html MAY GOD PROVIDE SUCH LEADERSHIP AS THIS.
To go to the top leading Historic Adventist websites;
http://www.stepstolife.org/html/home_church.html
http://www.davidiansda.org/ansaud1.htm
http://www.shepherds-rod-message.org/
http://www.originaldavidianmessage.org/index.shtml Click on Dan.2, at top right corner. Be sure to listen to all 24 short segments. You'll understand what the writings of Ellen White has done for the Historic Seventh Day Adventist church.
I found another group that call themselves REFORM ADVENTIST they write;
The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism.
|
Identifying the seven spirits of the church. click below; |
http://www.everythingimportant.org/gospel/7faces.htm
All of the above sites believe Ellen White is as inspired as any other bible writer. They all claim to be the only true Seventh Day Adventist church.
What do Adventists believe? Go ask what language was spoken by the people after the Lord confused their tongues at Babel. Adventism is a second Babel.... But Seventh-day Adventists say "We are united; we believe alike." Partly true, but they are only one branch of this Advent Babel..... Such a brood of errors and heresies as has resulted from Adventism, cannot be found in the history of the church before. Gracious! And these are the people sent with a "message" to warn the world! They had better go back and learn and agree on what their "message" is before they run to deliver it.
D.M. Canright
THE BATTLE STILL RAGES TODAY; http://www.qod.andrews.edu/downloads.html
THE PROBLEM STILL REMAINS. YOU CAN'T DO AWAY WITH ALL OF THE EGW STATEMENTS;
“As the son of man was perfect in His life, so His followers are to be PERFECT in their life. A well-balanced character is formed by single acts well performed. One defect, cultivated instead of being overcome, makes the man imperfect, and closes against him the gates of the Holy City… In all the redeemed host not one defect will be seen… “THE FAITH I LIVE BY” pg.44.
“Christ has given us no assurance that to attain perfection of character is an easy matter.” MY LIFE TODAY, pg. 271
“We can overcome. Yes; entirely. Jesus died to make a way of escape for us, that we might overcome evil temper, every sin. Every temptation…” 1T pg.144.
“Not even a thought did He, yield to temptation. So it may be with us.” Desire of Ages, pg 123.
“In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning.” Signs of the times” Mar. 3, 1898
“To be redeemed means to cease from sin.” Review and Herald Sept. 25, 1900.
“…. conversion is not complete until he attains to perfection of Christian character.” 2T pg.505.
“Human beings may in this life attain to perfection of character.” Acts of Apostles, pg. 531.
“Perfection of character is attainable by every one who strives for it.” Selected Messages Vol.1, pg. 212
“Every man’s work passes in review before God and is registered for faithfulness or unfaithfulness. Opposite each name in the books of heaven is entered with terrible exactness every wrong word, every selfish act, every unfulfilled duty, and every secret sin, with every artful dissembling. Heaven sent warning or reproofs, neglected wasted moments, unimproved opportunities, the influence exerted for good or evil, with it’s far reaching results; all are chronicled by the recording Angel.” GC. Pg. 482
And the list goes ON and ON!
All the Historic Adventist believe it won't be long and they alone will be the144,000 perfect Remnant Historic Adventist that are left. They believe you must leave the Babylon, Progressive, Evangelical, Seventh Day Adventist church NOW, and join them, before the Pope brings in the Sunday law and the death decree. They maybe right. That's what the church taught us for years. Why change now? You must decide.
After watching all eight videos, of the Ellen White summit, I still don't get it. Am I to believe that only the thoughts of Ellen White were inspired, and not necessarily her words? How do you put your thoughts on paper without using words? Are we to take only the words her angel told her? Who decides which thoughts are inspired? Maybe they should come out with a red letter edition.
It's not the copying, that I find problems with, it's that she claimed it all came from God;
|
"In my books, the truth is
stated, barricaded by a ‘Thus saith the Lord.’ The Holy Spirit
traced these truths upon my heart and mind as indelibly as the
law was traced by the finger of God upon the tables of stone."
Letter 90, 1906.
"In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I
am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I
do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own
ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the
precious rays of light shining from the throne." Testimonies 5
p. 67. |
“God was speaking through clay.
You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, it was
a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your
minds things that had been shown me. In
these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am
presenting to you that which the Lord has presented
to
me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely
my own ideas. They are what God has opened
before me in vision --the precious rays of light
shining from the throne…”
(letter to Dr. Paulson; St. Helena, California, June 14,
1906, Selected Messages pp 24—37)
|
|
{5T 682} "Those who are reproved by the
Spirit of God should not rise up against the humble
instrument. It is God, not an erring mortal who has spoken
to save them from ruin." (Context: her Testimonies)
{5T 66} "If you seek to turn the counsel of God to suit yourselves, if you lesson the confidence of God's people in the testimonies (in the context of her writings) He has sent them, you are rebelling against God as certainly as were Korah, Dathan and Abiram. {3SM 32} "The Bible must be your counselor. Study it and the testimonies God has given; for they never contradict His word. (Again this is talking about the Testimonies written by White.)On the same page: "This (White's message) is now come before the people because it has been given to correct specious errors and to specify what is truth." "If the Testimonies speak not according to this word of God, reject them. Christ and Belial cannot be united.{3SM 30} The Holy Ghost is the Author of the Scriptures and the Spirit of Prophecy." The next page Ellen speaks of how she received God's light. "The power of God would come upon me and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error." White claims her messages are from God and do not conflict with the Bible. Yet we found there are many things that she writes that are in direct contrast with God's word. What were we to think? The Bible says that the Holy Spirit will lead us to all truth. So we must choose to be led by Him and not Mrs. White. TAKEN FROM A LETTER AT; http://www.mmoutreachinc.com/seventh_day_adventists/resignation.html |
After hearing George Knight say, during the Q@A section, that a whole lot of bible prophecies never came true either. I wondered why I should believe the bible at all, for that is the test of a true prophet. No! friends, it is not true that all Bible prophecy is conditional. If you haven't taken God at His word, to you it is conditional. But today Bible prophecy is being fulfilled right before our eyes and Adventist can't see it because it doesn't fit Ellen Whites visions of the end times.
We will go through these prophecies in the questions that are on this site. When Ellen Whites past prophecies failed they called them conditional. Yet today all of her future prophecies make the bible prophecies unfulfillable, so they have made the bible prophecies conditional too.
Below is a theology class at Calvary Chapel with David Hocking as teacher. Click on the topics at the right side to get a full view of all the classes.
Is the bible true? http://www.radiofreechurch.com/speaker_display/2?topic=49
Adventist response to George Knight's statement; http://cafesda.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_cafesda_archive.html
We're supposed to use common sense. We'll talk about the common sense issues, as we go along, because I agree with that statement. Maybe an example of thought inspiration is "THE CLEAR WORD BIBLE". The verbal words from God were taken out and Ellen Whites inspired thoughts where put in, right? Who decided?
Do you get the point? You can now get around any statement by simply claiming it was verbal and not thought out. Whoa! That don't make common sense to me.
For a Great story to illustrate what the summit was like;
click on; http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/FiveStudentsParable.txt
____________________________________________________________________________
OKAY! YOU SAID, YOU WANTED TO ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS.
HERE IS A BIG ONE !
SHOULD WE FORGET
OCT. 22, 1844
AND
2300 DAYS?
This question has yet to be answered biblically, yet more scholars, preachers and teachers, have been kicked out of the SDA church over, just asking, this question than any other. Why? We need a clear cut answer. YES or NO. Was it verbally inspired, or was it thought inspired? Did she get it from William Miller or her angel? If it was thought inspired, but her words about it weren't inspired, who gets to decide? May I give you a make believe example of what I mean?
"Last nite thile sleepin I had tought from God. I tri and tell ya that inspirited tought to you with own words. Where go's; T'was as if a lite from heavn filed the rom I twere takn up. And the tought's of broter Crower was shewn me. he were in corn filled, a vison came from God an tell him he were to tell us Jesus left wholly place in heaven and went to most wholly place in 1844." pardon me words not form God." E.G. Black.
I'm not trying to make fun of Ellen White. I've tried to read some of her handwriting. It's hard to understand the writings of a person with a third grade education. It's not to hard for me to believe her words were not inspired. Seems like common sense to me.
Here's what Crozier saw in the corn field; Day-Star Extra, February 7, 1846 BY O. R. L. Crozier;
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/refute2.htm
http://www.truthorfables.com/Crosier_Renounces_Shut_Door.htm
Here's what Hiram Edson saw in the corn field;
http://www.truthorfables.com/Edson's
Now that the church is more progressive, I have a few more questions for the church Leaders, Preachers, Teachers and Scholars to answer. If they won't it will soon be time for the membership to answer. PLEASE! To the historic Adventist this is a life or death matter!
BELOW IS A MUST READ FOR EVERY ADVENTIST WHO IS FACED WITH THE CHOICE, AM I LOST IF I'M NOT HISTORIC? WHAT IF I HAVE BECOME A PROGRESSIVE EVANGELICAL.?
ADVENTIST ACADEMY SPEARHEADS ATTACK AGAINST DALE RATZAFF; http://adventistsnotcult.blogspot.com/2008/01/collegedale-academy-spearheads-attack.html
http://adventistsnotcult.blogspot.com/2008/01/ratzlaff-discredited-this-witness-has.html
http://adventistsnotcult.blogspot.com/2008/01/ratzlaff-conclusion-faulty-conscience.html
I'M NOT A PART OF THIS GROUP, BUT ENJOYED LISTENING TO THEM. HOPING TO HEAR THE TRUTH FROM THE BIBLE NOT CRITICISM OF THE SDA CHURCH AND ELLEN WHITE. LISTEN TO THEM AT; "FORMER ADVENTIST" WEEK END CONFERENCE 2008 AUDIO click on; http://formeradventist.com/weekends/fafweekend2008.html
I WANTED THIS SITE TO BE EDUCATIONAL AND TRUTHFUL. I WANTED YOU TO LEARN THE TRUTH FROM "SDA DOCUMENTS" AND THE BIBLE ONLY, SO I QUOTE A LOT OF BIBLE TEXTS THAT OTHER SO CALLED SUBVERSIVES AND HATERS OF ELLEN WHITE SITES DON'T, BUT THE SDA CHURCH WON'T DEAL WITH THESE BIBLE TEXTS EITHER. I HAD READ THE FOLLOWING ACCUSATION;
The harmony between these haters of Ellen G. White and the Subversives is that both groups do not promote and apparently do not have any positive interpretation of Scripture that distinguishes their faith in any way, but their criticisms of the Adventist movement are identical. Taken from; http://www.everythingimportant.org/gospel/7faces.htm
WE CAN ALL READ THE "SDA DOCUMENTS" NOW ON THE INTERNET. BUT, I TOO HAD SEEN THAT SOME OF THE CRITICS LACKED A TRUE UNDERSTANDING THEMSELVES, THEREFORE THIS SITE, WHICH ENCOURAGES YOU TO RESPOND WITH YOUR ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS.
Here are some of the websites and books that Dr. Jud Lake refers to, in video three, as having been written by the mad, bitter, hateful, Relentless, lunatics that left the church, YOU DECIDED.
Josiah Litch's Predictions about Turkey - 1840;
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw52.htm
Ellen White’s hand written letter to Joseph Bates dated May 13, 1847.
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw55.htm
Joseph Bates, Second Advent Waymarks,1847, Pages 97-110;
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw19.htm
Gilbert Cranmer's - Personal Experiences with Ellen White
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/cranmert.htm
Mrs. Lucinda Burdick - Visions of Ellen G. Harmon
http://www.ex-sda.com/lucinda.htm
H.C. Blanchard - The Testimonies of Mrs. E. G. White Compared With the Bible
http://www.ex-sda.com/newpage24.htm
Norwich Tract
1890 "The Claims
of Mrs. Ellen G. White as stated by herself, Considered from
the Standpoint of Scripture.
http://www.ex-sda.com/newpage25.htm
H.E. Carver 1871- book- Mrs. E. G. White's Claims to Divine Inspiration Examined
http://www.ex-sda.com/newpage22.htm
Charles Lee 1876 -book- THREE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS FOR SDA's TO CONSIDER
http://www.ex-sda.com/newpage23.htm
Miles Grant 1877 -book- An Examination of Mrs. Ellen White's Visions
http://www.ex-sda.com/miles_grant.htm
D. M. Canright - (Minster and A state conf. President)
http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/SDAism-RENOUNCED-by-D-M-Canright.html
http://help_for_sdas.tripod.com/Canright-LordsDay
http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/LifeofEGWHerClaimsRefutedCanright.html
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/Complete
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/The%20Truth
B. F. SNOOK & WM. H. BRINKERHOFF
http://www.truthorfables.com/Visons_of_%20EGW_by_Snook_&_Brinkerhoff.htm
Jones, E.B. - Publishing house mgr. (missionary to India)
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/Why
Jones, A.T. - (1888 Messenger)
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/ATEGW.htm
Waggoner, E.J. - (1888 Messenger)
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/waggoner.htm
To get most of the books Jones and Waggoner wrote free online go to;
http://www.shepherds-rod.org/1888/
History of Jones and Waggoner in Oregon;
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-
Adventist Claims against;
http://gospel-herald.com/wieland/glad_tidings_revisions.htm
John H. Kellogg- (founder of medical work for SDA) World renowned surgeon, inventor of dry cereal.
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/kelloggfile.htm
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/kellogg.htm
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw67.htm
Present Adventist view of Kellogg;
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
Albion F. Ballenger- 1909- Cast Out for the Cross of Christ (was Conf. President in Ireland)
http://www.nonsda.org/egw/ballenger/castout.htm
Edward S. Ballenger- (Albion brother)
http://www.truthorfables.com/Great_Controversy_Plagiarism.htm
W.W. Fletcher-
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/The%20Atonement
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/The%20Day%20of%20Atonement
http://www.exadventist.com/Portals/0/Repository/The%20Difference%20Between
Clara Endicott Sears, 1924- Days of Delusion – A Strange Bit of History
http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/DaysofDelusion.html
"NEW" DENNIS J. FISCHER, The “Truth” Re-examined - February, 2008
A MUST READ http://www.truthorfables.com/BEYOND%20ADVENTISM.pdfCommon Sense tells me these people weren't DUMMIES.
WHAT THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH HAS MANAGED TO DO, IN DEFENDING ELLEN WHITE'S INSPIRATION, IS MAKE THE BIBLE UNINSPIRED, UNRELIABLE, AND UNBELIEVABLE.
IS THAT WHY SO MANY WHO LEAVE, DON'T BELIEVE THE BIBLE ANYMORE AND WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION, PERIOD?
It may be hard for some of you to get it, but if none of the "unique doctrines" of the Seventh Day Adventist church originated with Ellen White, but were the thoughts of other's, the shut door, the bride groom cometh in 7 yrs., the Investigative Judgment and the Sabbath. Common sense ought to tell you it came from men.
We were taught that we could prove all our doctrines from the Bible only. If you can't answer even one of the questions I have posted on this site, without using Ellen White, then you must realize the SDA church is in trouble.
THEY DON'T USE THE BIBLE TEXTS I POST IN MY REASONS FOR ASKING THE QUESTIONS. CHECK IT OUT. GO TO THE INDEX TO ELLEN WHITE'S WRITINGS, SEE IF SHE USES ANY OF THE TEXTS. WHY NOT?
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE LONGED TO SEE CHANGE WITHIN THE SDA CHURCH. WHO HATED TO SEE THEIR BELOVED PASTORS, TEACHERS AND FAMILY MEMBERS KICKED OUT. To get a partial list go to;
http://www.bible.ca/7-white-inpsired-100-pastors-fired.htm
MOST HATED TO SEE NEW MEMBERS COME TO CHRIST ONLY TO SEE THEM LEAVE THE CHURCH OUT THE BACK DOOR. TO LEARN THAT 1,500,000 MEMBERS LEFT IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS WAS HEART BREAKING. TO HEAR THAT THE PER-CAPITA TITHE HAD DROPPED BY 75% WAS UNBELIEVABLE. TO LEARN THE CHURCH WAS TAKEN OVER SILENTLY BY A CORRUPT, TOP HEAVY, click on; HIERARCHICAL SYSTEM, WHICH THIS WAS NEVER VOTED ON BY THE MEMBERSHIP, IT WAS HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND. THE LINKS BELOW REVEAL THE PROBLEM;
http://www.truthorfables.com/SDA_Tithe_Down_75.htm
http://www.truthorfables.com/david_dennis.htm
http://www.truthorfables.com/AHS_Medicare_Fraud.htm
http://www.truthorfables.com/SDA_corruption_in_trinidad.htm
http://www.truthorfables.com/Union_Rights.htm
http://www.truthorfables.com/Gen_Conf_Highest_Aut.htm
http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Articles/SDAGrowthSlows/tabid/495/Default.aspx
Seventh-day Adventists: Where have your donations gone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Tnu0M7C4xs
The church leaders would have you believe the members who leave remain believers in the SDA message. They don't realize it's their own historic Adventism's, once hidden, documentations that are now opened for the world to read on the internet that are the problem. To read their own report on this go to;
http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/other_documents/conserving-gains.html?
IF THE QUESTIONS ON THIS WEBSITE ARE NOT ANSWERED BIBLICALLY, WITHOUT THE USE OF ELLEN WHITE, THERE WILL NEVER BE AN END TO THE OUT-FLOW OF MEMBERS, WHO WANT THE TRUTH, FULL TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. THAT ONLY COMES FROM THE BIBLE.
YOU CAN BE THANKFUL FOR THOSE, WHO GOD GAVE COMMON SENSE, FOR NOT GIVING UP ON THEIR ADVENTIST LOVED ONES. WHO WROTE BOOKS AND CREATED WEBSITES, SO YOU COULD READ THE LONG HIDDEN DOCUMENTS. THEY HAVE BROUGHT THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH TO A MORE PROGRESSIVE EVANGELICAL UNDERSTANDING. MOST OF THESE WEBSITE CREATORS HAVE BEEN DEMONIZED, BEEN KICKED OUT OF THE CHURCH AND HATED BY THEIR PAST FRIENDS. IT'S THEY WHO FACE THE mad, bitter, hateful, lunatics! BELIEVE ME IT IS RELENTLESS! YOU CAN THANK GOD, BECAUSE GOD WILL NOT GIVE UP ON YOU EITHER.
There are still questions that need to be answered.
This is a plea from the heart, take it serious!
_____________________________________________________________________
DO NOT READ THIS WEBSITE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO STUDY IT IN-DEPTH. THERE IS A COLLEGE EDUCATION WORTH OF MATERIAL ON IT. YOU WON'T GET MOST OF THIS MATERIAL IN ANY ADVENTIST COLLEGE. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IS BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUES. YOU'LL LEARN WHAT OTHER SCHOLARS' THINK OF YOUR BELIEFS. IF THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST LEADERSHIP WILL ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS YOU'LL GET THEIR DEFENSE OF THEIR FAITH. IF THEY WON'T YOU NEED TO DEFEND IT YOURSELF. BUT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDES IN ORDER TO DO THAT. THAT'S WHAT THIS SITE IS ALL ABOUT. IT WILL TAKE YOU TWO HOURS JUST TO READ MY QUESTIONS AND MY REASON FOR ASKING. DO THAT FIRST, THEN FOLLOW THE LINKS, THAT WILL TAKE YOU FOREVER, I'VE BEEN STUDYING IT FOR 26 YEARS AND GOD IS NOT THROUGH WITH ME YET. GOD BLESS YOU FOREVER.
I WANT THE LEADERSHIP TO REALIZE THAT ONE DAY THEY WILL STAND BEFORE, THE KING OF KINGS, TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS.
1. WHY DID YOU TAKE AWAY THE MINISTERIAL LICENSE OF PASTORS WHO COULDN'T BELIEVE IN THE HISTORIC VIEW OF ADVENTISM ANYMORE, WHILE NOW LETTING THEM REMAIN?
2. WHY DID YOU TAKE AWAY THEIR MEANS OF LIVELIHOOD, HONOR, RESPECT, AND THEIR PENSION. WHY DID YOU DEMONIZE THEM SO?
3. WHY DID YOUR COLLEGES FAIL STUDENTS WHO DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTIONS YOU TAUGHT THEM ABOUT THE 2300 DAY CHART CORRECTLY. MANY GAVE UP THEIR THEOLOGY DEGREES.
4. WHY DID YOU HIDE SO MANY DOCUMENTS FROM YOUR MEMBERS?
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ON THIS WEBSITE IS JUST HOW CLOSE WE ARE TO, THE TRIAL OF ALL TRIALS, "THE COMING OF THE LORD" TO DEFEND YOUR FOOLISH, UNSCRIPTURAL, "UNIQUE DOCTRINES" .
I WOULD WORRY MOST ABOUT STANDING BEFORE GOD, THE JUDGE OF HEAVEN AND EARTH, AND TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU CHANGED THE BIBLE TO SUPPORT YOUR PROPHET. WHY YOU HAD TO TEACH ELLEN WHITES VIEW THAT GOD REALLY DIDN'T MEAN WHAT HE PROMISED TO THE JEWS IT WAS ALL FOR THE ADVENTIST INSTEAD.
WE AS MEMBERS WERE TAUGHT WE WOULD HAVE TO STAND BEFORE JUDGE AND JURY TO DEFEND OUR "UNIQUE DOCTRINES". THE QUESTIONS, I ASK ON THIS WEBSITE, ARE THE SAME QUESTIONS YOU'LL BE ASKED BY THE PROSECUTING ATTORNEY. YOU WILL THEN BE ASKED TO RESPOND TO THE SAME REASONS I STATE FOR ASKING THE QUESTIONS. YOU NEED TO FIND AN ANSWER TO THEM NOW BEFORE IT'S TO LATE. GOD WILL NOT BRING TO YOUR MIND YOUR SDA ANSWERS. YOU'LL NEED GOOD BIBLE ANSWERS. LEARN THEM NOW.
May I give you my reasons for asking?
You'll find my reason below each question.
|
Read my reasons before you respond so you will know where I’m coming from. PLEASE respond to the bible text I have used. We're told to contend for the faith. It's not a sin to do it. (Don't make me the issue. That's not answering the questions) I'M NOT A BITTER, MAD, HATEFUL, RELENTLESS LUNATIC. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO REALLY CARE ABOUT THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS AND WANT TO SEE THEM IN HEAVEN. If you want I will add your answer below my reasons. I will never add anything without your consent. Please, add your name and position in the SDA church. If you are not speaking for the SDA church as a whole and someone who can speak for the SDA church answers the question, your response will be replaced. I think you'll understand why. I MAY BE WRONG ABOUT ALL OF THIS. But you must prove it from the bible first over Ellen White. Remember we have always been told that we could prove all our doctrine from the Bible. Give it a try. COME LET US REASON TOGETHER. IF I'M RIGHT ABOUT JUST ONE OF MY REASONS, FOR ASKING THE QUESTIONS, THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH CAN NO LONGER CLAIM "THE TRUTH FULL TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH" AND THAT'S THE TEST. THE NEED TO CORRECT THE ERRORS TO SUPPORT THE CLAIM OF "WE HAVE THE TRUTH" OVER ALL OTHER CHURCHES IS A MUST, OR WE NEED TO STOP CLAIMING IT. Yours truly, Ronald R. Parmele
IF YOU ARE NOT FULLY GROUNDED IN THE ADVENTIST FAITH DON'T GO TO Q@A WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM YOUR PASTOR! THE QUESTIONS I ASK AND THE REASONS FOR ASKING THEM ARE ANSWERED WITHOUT THE AID OF ELLEN WHITE. THE BIBLE TEXTS I USE ARE NEVER USED BY ADVENTIST PASTORS IN EXPLAINING THEIR UNIQUE DOCTRINES'. IF THEY RESPOND PLEASE SEND ME THEIR RESPONSE, I'LL BE GLAD TO ADD IT TO THIS SITE. WE ALL NEED THEIR ANSWERS. For Pastor, Teacher and Leader, responses so far click here (Please try to answer at least one) SITE BEGAN JAN.1,2008
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
|
